First Pregnancy Missed Miscarriage (Part III)

[sadtoday21]

Hi ladies! Our last thread was automatically closed (again) because we reached the 1,000 post limit (twice!). I was hoping we would be able to start a new thread called First Pregnancy Post-MMC, but unfortunately we are not all quite there yet (BUT some of us are!! congrats!!!). I know we will all be pregnant someday soon and that this will end up being a lucky thread! In the meantime, I hope you will all join me as we continue on this journey together. You have all been an invaluable source of inspiration, support, and kindness for me and I want to thank you for making me feel less alone in this. This thread and the ladies on it have been a source of inspiration for me, which is why I created this blog to help other women find information and support after miscarriage: mcandbeyond.weebly.com/

About me, for any newcomers: 31 years old, first pregnancy ended in an MMC in February at 12 weeks (baby passed at nine), D&C the next day, found out five weeks later that it was a partial molar pregnancy and had follow-up with CX hospital until mid-May. Second early MC in April (we weren't supposed to be getting pregnant because of the molar, but didn't know about it at the time). Now TTC again nearly four months after the first MMC and so so ready for a baby!

@BabyPending I'm so sorry lovely, going through this twice must have been absolutely awful I know what you mean re not knowing where you are in your cycle, very unsettling. That was literally me until yesterday as well.

I know I keep banging on about acupuncture, but I've had several sessions and it did absolute wonders to my mental health and ability to deal with grief. Yesterday for the first time I had the AF/cycle points activated. Next thing I know, AF is here, even though my PMS was gone and I thought it wouldn't happen this month. I can't praise it enough.

Our time will come, no matter how much strength and time it takes, and no matter how, it will happen for all of us ❤️ xxx

Hi ladies!

Happy Friday ♥️

@AnnaMC214 you are incredibly strong! Sending love your way ♥️

I’ve been really busy and tbh have completely forgotten about TTC. No idea what cycle day I’m on, no temping and no checking my CM. I feel so much better for it if I’m honest ladies. No idea when AF is due and I’m quite happy to just take it as it comes ♥️♥️♥️

Hi @Kiki061190 😊 You sound happy - that's brilliant. I have no idea overall either, only know at this moment in time because of AF. But decided not to monitor anything after it's finished, just gonna go with the flow & have some cheeky time on our short holiday soon, woop, woop! 😁 DH can't wait, bless him, he's not had much luck at all in the last 3 months 😂

Hope you all have a good weekend lovely ladies 💐 xxx

Hey ladies, sorry it's been so long again. Just not been coping with my crazy cycles. What started off as pretty smooth temperatures descended into madness and I'm gutted. It's looking like another anovulatory cycle. I've been feeling nauseous with light cramping since Monday yet no sustained rise. I saw the gp who wasn't much help but did refer me for a pelvic ultrasound as I said I'm concerned it could be a cyst. I just don't understand because I was ovulating every cycle before my two losses and the cycle after. Part of me wants to ditch Ovusense but then I'd have no idea. I'm just hoping stress isn't the cause as I've tried to stay as chilled as possible.

@AnnaMC214 it's so good to hear from you and I'm so sorry you've had such an ordeal. I really hope your doctor has fixed the problem. Are you considering legal action again the doctor who caused this? I guess we sign to say we accept the risks but I was told they are minimal. If the procedure was carried out aggressively surely grounds for compensation for your private treatment costs at least. It really struck a cord when you said about trusting your instincts. I just feel like somethings not right. Xx

@MrsMGE thanks so much 😘 I definitely feel so much better now I have no charts to look at ect.... somehow less stressful if that makes sense? Ooooh yes that’s what holidays are for!!

@Catconfusion day 28 and no O? This is so unfair on you! Maybe ditching it would be better, I know I would be feeling the same if I were you and it’s horrible! Hopefully your GP can get some answers for you soon. You are so strong!!

@AnnaMC214 @Catconfusion On that note, I can't say for definite on the basis of a couple of posts or provide legal advice on here. But generally speaking, if you were to consider legal action, it would require two key elements - 1. was the surgery conducted without reasonable care and skill (breach of duty) ; and 2. would you be in a position you are in now but for that breach, i.e. in your case, did it cause you harm that could have been avoided. This is not my practice area, but these two principles are crucial in negligence generally. It sounds like there might be grounds for a case, but it is very fresh - I would expect it would need to become clearer what the actual consequences are for you and your health. Having said that, as there is limitation (i.e. a time limit to make a claim) in all cases, it is not advisable to wait too long, so if you feel OK to talk about this, I'd say it wouldn't do harm to have an initial meeting with a specialist clinical negligence solicitor (representing claimants) to discuss this. They'll be able to assess your case properly and tell you if it might be worth pursuing it. Usually at least some of the CN solicitors would offer an initial appointment free of charge - definitely ask as and when the time comes. It might be a good idea to wait till things settle a bit, also because you'll give yourself time to think and notice all the things that may not be "right". It's very important to tell everything to your solicitor.

Of course I get there's enough going on without the legal stuff, so if you're not even considering this, I completely understand and please ignore me in my legal hat. Just thought if I could help a little bit, I'll say something as I tend to find that some clients feel confused as to how we work and how to approach us, what they need to do etc. It's not as scary as it might seem and a good solicitor will take hell of a lot of that burden and stress off you - this, in combination with the legal knowledge is what we're paid for. So please don't feel overwhelmed or put off if you're considering this. Lots of love xxx

Thanks @Kiki061190 and yes I'm wondering if the charting is making it worse. I was ovulating before and now I'm not. Glad it's working for you and I hope this is your month.

I'm not feeling very strong at the moment. The thought of not temping is terrifying just in case I miss it because it's so unpredictable. I just hope my fertility appointment comes through soon.xx

@MrsMGE that's really good advice and hopefully will help @AnnaMC214 if she needs it. xx

@Kiki061190 That's exactly why I'm avoiding charting, temping etc., I think it would stress me out to the max. Hoping to hear your happy news when the right time comes, and I'm sure it won't be long ❤️💐 xxx

I said to myself I'm not even going to do any pregnancy tests until I miss two periods. I'll be very careful with what I drink, eat etc. but I hope to reduce the wait till the 12 scan. What will be, will be. I had early scans in my first pregnancy and they didn't save my baby. In fact, my baby died 2 days after a perfect scan, with no symptoms. So I'm not going to have them again, as they don't give me reassurance anymore and the NHS ignores them too. Of course this is how I feel now, things may change.

@Catconfusion thank you & no worries ❤️ I think charting etc is stressful in itself. But I also very much agree with what you say Re gut feelings - you know your body best. Do you think it would be best to be seen by someone, for your peace of mind at least? Hoping everything is OK for you lovely xxx

@Catconfusion I really hope the fertility appointment is soon. I always found that the charts were subconsciously on my mind!

@MrsMGE I feel the same about early scans now! I had 2 previously and I wouldn’t do them again. I also feel the same about pregnancy tests. I actually don’t even know when to expect AF because my last cycle was shorter and I think that makes things a little easier because I don’t have a date in my head 😂

@MrsMGE thank you so much for taking the time to offer your (very obviously expert) advice. It had briefly crossed my mind to go down the legal route but I think it would be a very hard thing to argue. On the one hand you do sign your consent and scarring was on the list of possible complications but on the other hand I was led to believe it was very unlikely which my research since suggests otherwise. The surgeon who performs an erpc must strike a careful balance between not being too aggressive whilst ensuring they don't leave anything behind. This is made much harder for them as generally on the nhs they perform it blind with no ultrasound to guide them. I don't really blame him. No surgeon ever sets out to cause harm. My main concern is that he doesn't know this has happened and could go on to do the same to someone else. I plan on writing a letter to both him and my GP as I think there needs to be more awareness.

@catconfusion it's so nice to speak to you again but I'm so sorry your situation hasn't improved. I was fortunate that we had some money we could use to go private but I can't stress enough the difference it makes to see a specialist. If you feel something is wrong then you need to be your own advocate and push for answers. I know how hard it is to keep fighting but I also know how strong you are (even if you don't feel it right now). xxx

@MrsMGE thank you. Well my go has referred for an ultrasound which tbh is more than I expected. It should come in the next week or two so if there is something going on we should know soon. Not sure I can do more than that.

I'm beginning to think I was better without the charting. The first pregnancy happened with very sporadic use of my sensor as we had bad internet so didn't even catch o but saw my temps had gone up. Maybe I could just use it once a week to check. Xx

@AnnaMC214 I'm quite lucky where I live that the fertility referral is to Bourne Hall which is a private clinic so we will be in very good hands when the appointment comes through. It's likely to be very soon. I think my gp did all he could to refer for a scan and I was happy with that. The scan is also at a private clinic so I will be checked thoroughly. There's not much else I can do. I do wonder if it's just stress affecting my ibs which causes pains in that area. I guess we'll know soon enough. I just wish this was easier! I appreciate it's nothing compared to your journey and I hope you have a full recovery! Xx

@AnnaMC214 I completely understand what you're saying, however if you feel that the level of risk was presented to you in such manner that it was underestimated, or made you feel falsely confident and you proceeded with the procedure on that basis then in my mind that in itself is questionable and may well amount to professional misconduct. It sounds to me like you may have been made aware of the risk, but also misled to believe that this procedure was safer than it actually was. That's an issue. Another question is, yes, scarring may occur, but a skilled surgeon's duty is to ensure it doesn't and if things go wrong regardless, then to minimise it. So if your scarring is more severe than what would be a reasonably expected side effect of ERPC that is also questionable. If your ability to conceive has been affected or severely affected by it then that is certainly another red flag. That's why I'm saying that if you feel like talking to a specialist solicitor, I would do it. At least this may offer you some reassurance. I take from your posts that you're a very kind person. That's wonderful and please don't feel that any of us here are looking for issues where there aren't or pressurise you to argue your case. That's not my intention at all. You may be perfectly right, sadly side effects happen with any kind of medical procedure. But from what you said, it does seem there are question marks and I am raising them because I really feel for you in this situation and because I care. Praying for you lovely and I know that you will make the right decision for yourself xxx❤️🙏

@MrsMGE thank you so much. I really do appreciate your advice and kind words. I think I'm still in a bit of a curl up and hide state of mind right now but I will definitely think carefully about what you've said. xxx

@AnnaMC214 No need to thank me, it's what I do ❤️ I know you're in the middle of it now. Wishing you lots of strength ❤️ xxx

@Catconfusion It sounds like you've done everything you can. That's a good thing you've been referred. Easier said than done, but until you have some results, try to keep as calm as you can. You're right, stress and checking things constantly (temps/ovulation charts etc) are not necessarily out friends now. Fellow IBS sufferer here too - you're right, your symptoms may be linked to it (and again, stress is our enemy isn't it). Hopefully you'll have some news soon ❤️ xxx

By the way...yesterday I watched that controversial new trailer for Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Cats" (film version) and I've been listening to "Memory". This is now my favourite part of this song, thought it was very accurate 🌺:

"Daylight,
I must wait for the sunrise,
I must think of a new life,
And I mustn't give in.
When the dawn comes,
Tonight will be a memory too,
And a new day will begin."

❤️💐 Xxx

I'm sorry to hear you have ibs @MrsMGE I've not been symptomatic in 8 years then suddenly I had an upset tummy when I came back from our honeymoon in Dec. I thought it was eating more than I'm used to but I was pregnant and didn't know. Since then my tummy has been awful on and off, especially during the two pregnancies. Is yours worse around ovulation and leading up to AF? It's just a constant sharp pain in my tummy. I'm on Alverine and peppermint tablets now which are helping I think but it's miserable. In the back of my mind I do worry it's my ovary as I know cysts can give similar pain.

It's so difficult to decide about the charting. With irregular cycles a pregnancy is much more difficult to date so I've felt like it might prevent any unnecessary fears over mmc. When I found out I'd lost my baby I was 10 weeks by lmp but baby was 6 so it was touch and go as to whether it was a mmc. I didn't know when I'd ovulated so all guesswork. There was no growth or heartbeat after a week so definitely lost. I just felt it gave me a bit of false hope thinking maybe I just ovulated late.

I think after a mmc we do anything we can to protect ourselves and know what's going on sooner. The temping is difficult to do without stress, especially with irregular cycles. I think seeing those failed ovulations is triggering because of the mmc and feeling like my body failed again. Xx

Lovely words @MrsMGE xx

😘 @Catconfusion I choked up when I listened to them, they are lovely xxx

My IBS definitely flares up before AF. I get even more sensitive then if I eat something I shouldn't have, I got trigger foods which I now generally avoid. Peppermint tea and colpermint tablets are my best friends.

It sounds like you had a pregnancy-related flare up. I think progesterone is the culprit. My progesterone spike caused a huge flare up of eczema (which I don't often have), and it baffled me at the time, and sorry, TMI, but diarrhoea or constipation for 3 weeks, plus tummy discomfort. My tummy definitely wasn't normal in early pregnancy and now you've said that, it's classic IBS. I think you're totally right.

Stress is my huge trigger, this is also why I'm now really concentrating on mindfulness. Sorry you're suffering too, it's not a nice thing, but it sounds you've done a great job in managing it. In pregnancy though, things get out of our control due to rising hormone levels xxx

@Catconfusion also re charting I think in some situations it does help - and yours is one of them. My closest friend is a PCOS sufferer and she's tracking regularly too. It's not easy mentally, but I completely see how it helps, so please don't think that you have to stop just because I or anyone else on here don't do it. Our circumstances vary and we all have to do what's best for us ❤️ xxx

Yes @MrsMGE I'm convinced it's progesterone too. When I was pregnant I didn't put two and two together. My doctor said I had hypermesis as I was being sick with it as well and struggling to keep food down or up. Now my doctor thinks it was a mixture of severe ibs and morning sickness. It was immobilising. I couldn't work from week 6 and could barely sit up. The doctor put me on bed rest. I was puking right up until the surgery at 12 weeks. Usually sickness is a good sign but with us it got worse after the baby stopped progressing. The doctor said it's because the placenta carried on growing so my hormones were increasing.

The nausea subsided but the bad stomach hadn't really gone with it being worse around ovulation. At the moment my temperature is doing this weird see saw thing so not sure if I'm trying to ovulate. My stomach is awful which usually is the progesterone. I must be so sensitive as I haven't even got a sustained rise and I'm feeling sick with an explosive tummy.

Anyway as you say the stress is a trigger. I'm trying hard to meditate and stay calm but so much of it goes on unconsciously I think. Removing the temping might hopefully help. Xx

@MrsMGE don't worry I know you're just being supportive. Yes temping helps to know what's going on but if it potentially stops me ovulating through stress it's counterproductive. I think a cycle off everything might do me good. We have our due date next month which will be hard anyway so it might be nice to just let everything be! Xx

Hi all I hope you're all well! @Catconfusion I know what you mean by charting. But it sounds like if you have PCOS that's the only way to not miss out on O? This time around I'll stop tempting the second I get pregnant though as my temps were high a month after I miscarried so it didn't help at all!

@AnnaMC214 so sorry for what happened to you, but happy that they are doing something now! It's time like this I'm glad I don't live in the UK (I live in a country where work pays for private healthcare - it's law), so they don't fob people off.

As for me, I'm currently in hospital having had another d&c to clear out the blood clots that they missed the first time. Been given the green light to try again ASAP so really happy about it 😄

Hope all you other ladies are okay xxx

Girls. Personal question, if I may. Most of us on here are either planning to try again, actively TTC or have conceived again after the loss, or multiple losses. How are you feeling about being pregnant again? Are you scared? Is this normal or a sign of not being ready yet?

I keep reading that you should try again "when you're ready". What does it mean, though? I'm yearning for a baby that I could hold tight and nurture. My heart breaks at a thought I may have to wait for a long time. Is this being ready?

I'm now on day 3 AF. We can start trying again very soon which makes me feel good and worried in the same time. How did you know the time was right for you?

Hey @MrsMGE - good question! For me, after the erpc my hormones where still racing (I think) and eagerly wanted to ttc straight away. On reflection, this eagerness was just the hormones taking over and actually a response to something which had been taken away from me. I wanted it back. It took me three cycles to conceive again, which I miscarried. By the time I had conceived I was very happy. However, when I lost that pregnancy it made me quite angry and scared...scared if there was something wrong with me. We went on holiday to Scotland after that MC (3 days afterwards) to do some sole searching. I came away thinking 'that due to my age we may have to try and fail a few more times to get our baby, I would need to make my peace with any future losses, as it is completely out of my control, and even think of the possibility of not having children'. We also agreed at the time that we would discuss every future loss and decide when to call it quits. If one of us didn't want to continue, the other would follow suit. This agreement made it easier to continue. I caught straight away. The fear and anxiety is still there, mainly because when every day/week passes you allow yourself to consider the possibility of this actually happening. In my experience, it hasn't go any easier. However, between the MMC and MC the hormones had subsided and the desperate need to be pregnant did reduce - which I was thankful for. Not sure if this has answered your question, it's certainly an interesting discussion to have...certainly no right or wrong, and everyone will respond differently. Xx

@MrsMGE we want to try straight away again, I am 35 and want 2 (if that blessed!) so no time to waste. I think I'll be super worried but at the end of the day there's nothing we can do right?

I'm gonna try to go on with my life as normal and try not obsessing. Easier said than done I know. My problem is that this happened on my 10 week scan and the baby had died at week 9 (I heard a healthy heartbeat during my early scan at six weeks), so it was a long time to be pregnant I think which made it a bit harder for me because it didn't naturally come out, 2 d&c's and it's been dragging since March when I found out 😔

I'm scared that it it happens again all of this will take this long again.

I'm tempting now and will use OPKs, but will stop everything when I get pregnant again.

Fingers crossed for rainbows for all of us 🌈