Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 27 - Tests, Treatments and Trying Again

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Tea, hugs, a wealth of collective knowledge and lots of hand holding as we try again. This thread moves like lightning so hold on to your hats!
Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/miscarriage/2404797-Recurrent-Miscarriage-Support-Thread-26-tests-treatment-and-trying-again

emerald, what you describe, which was mentioned on the other thread, is the hyperfertility theory. This is one of the problems caused by an inflammatory response in the endometrium (lining), the symptom of which is high uNK cells that coventry test for. It's what i have and if you think it may fit your history i would definitely suggest a trip there. It is treated with prog from 7dpo (although as you probably guessed from reading this thread, the exact dosage and timing of that is not an exact science!) and if you have high uNK then you would also be prescribed steroids.

Quiet congratulations loopy, I totally get the hesitancy to reach for the drugs, you've got to do what you think best.

bootles not sure whether to say I'm glad you're suffering again, sounds wrong but you know what I mean!

Emerald I've heard that theory mentioned a lot on this thread but given I've only managed two pregnancies in over 3.5 years it's not one that I've related to so someone else will explain it better!!

feathered both my mc's dragged on for weeks, my hcg didn't return to 0 for 7-8 weeks after the last one. Have you tried an hpt to see if there is any hcg still left in your system? If it's negative then you can probably assume it's AF. Don't be put off by some of the stories on this thread, the majority of these women have had three, four, five etc mc's and been referred to the recurrent miscarriage clinic, which is what most of the discussion is about. You have a very, very high chance of having a successful pg next time. Good luck.

Ha! There you go Emerald, whilst I was typing the words someone more knowledgeable will be along.... March was already there as I was typing!!

Whisper congrats loopy x

My consultant reckons hyper fertility is much more common than people realise as for most women the mc happens within a few days and being none the wiser they assume it's a normal period however for ladies that suffer rmcs, the signal that the egg isn't any good gets lost/ muddled for a while so the body assumes everything's ok and hence why the egg sack continues to grow until the body finally gets the message and an mc happens. Would make sense for two of my three mcs but not the middle where an Hb was seen. In truth it's an under researched area, so no-one definitively knows, hence the case work!

Hi,
I wondered if I could join you all on here? I am 27 and waiting for recurrent miscarriage tests after 3 losses this year (9.5weeks, 7weeks and 4.5weeks). We are TTC#1. Has anyone been tested at a Royal Derby?
I have wondered about the super fertility too Emerald as I fall pregnant every month we try but after 3 MC I am not sure now.. xx

Ah yes, bootles, i think i have probably described it wrong. When I say I am tired and hungry on pred, I actually mean neither! Definitely don't feel tired but I know I haven't had enough sleep as I was wide awake at 4:45. And definitely not hungry. Hungry is a phrase that leaves my vocabulary during the first half of pregnancy, but rather I'm aware that I haven't eaten regularly enough (ie had a break for longer than an hour without food) as the nausea arrives. The description of feeling jumpy/buzzy is exactly right.

Welcome teach, but so sorry that you find yourself here. I don't remember anyone being in the derby area but perhaps someone will shout up. I hope we can offer you some support as you go through the testing process and beyond.

girlie, emerald, teach, under the Coventry (implantation clinic) theory, my understanding is that the hyperfertility part is only half the picture. The inflammatory response in the endometrium also causes implantation issues, so as well as implanting nonviable eggs when it shouldn't, it implants good eggs, but the barrier/interface between the mother and baby is not correctly formed, so it allows messages through to say there is an invader (when this barrier would normally block them), and also causes issues with the placenta, so when it starts to carry the blood supply to the baby around 9 weeks, it is not strong enough and can fail. They think this explains the slightly later losses after a heart beat is seen, and the losses of chromosomally normal embryos. Sorry for ramming this down everyone's throat. Maybe i should write it up on the spreadsheet instead

Marchthank you so much, you are very wise and knowledgeable about all this! Thanks for the clarification. I've contacted Coventry and they should be ringing me back tomorrow, def worth a trip after all I've heard on here. The timing of the progesterone does sound complex though!

Barkingha ha thanks for your words, yes March was already there!

Girliethanks, bit more info there on it, I never knew all of this, def worth asking about. I can go to my tests now more informed. ????

Teach welcome here, so sorry for your losses it's very tough, and just goes to show it can happen to younger ladies too unfortunately. This is the place no one wants to be but is so helpful and supportive I'm sure you'll find lots of advice and understanding here, big hug.

Feathered and Teach welcome and so sorry you find yourselves here. But you really are in the right place.

Loopy. hope you had a lovely hols. Keeping my fingers crossed for you that this one is it. Not sure what to advice re the drugs but did I remember Mr Watts saying to you clexane from BFP?

Sun how are you feeling? Cloud what about you? Hope the anxiety is calming down.

Had acupuncture yesterday and I only have 1 more session left. My 12 wk scan is a week tomorrow - each day now i say "I can't believe I've come this far" it doesn't seem real and I've still got ages to go yet.

I'm trying to be positive - I want to try and enjoy it, but it's agony. I know exactly what Belle said I need to be someone who is pregnant and not someone who lost 3 babies.

But I don't think it will ever leave me

Thanks March that does make more sense. I will wait and see what they say at Derby. If they can't find anything then a trip to Coventry might be useful.

Thanks Emerald, I am very sorry for your bad luck too x

Thanks March for the explanation. I was never very good at science at school (I work in marketing need I say more!) so generally anything medical goes over my head.

Welcome newbies. Sorry for your losses and hope we can provide some advice/ guidance.

Good luck Brummie for tomorrow. Think there will be a few of us there with you holding your hand x

I've been a bit quiet over the past week as I'm struggling with the prospect of another Ttc ban whilst I wait for the hysterscopy and if I'm honest a bit jealous of the ladies getting bfps, although I really pleased for each and everyone one of you. The last Ttc ban ended up being for 6 months due to the cock up with my referrals/ testing and it feels like it's going to be the same amount of time again. Doesn't help that Dd has started asking for a sibling, which is really hard. Sorry for the me post and sure tomorrow will be a better day

March, meant to add that your explanation was very clear so I understood it (note to self to read back my posts before pressing post)

I have to say that I struggle a bit with the theory of the 'unselective uterus'. For one, I think that it is normal and natural that a uterus would implant any fertilised egg, since this is what it is meant to do. At such an early stage I doubt that a fertilised egg could send out any signals that indicate it's not a 'good one' - there just isn't enough there to produce enough of any type of signal, iykwim.

I know that we all (myself included!) have at one point raged against our bodies and that they can't seem to hold on to a baby, but I sometimes think that we forget that in most cases our bodies have done exactly what they are supposed to do - that is, to stop a non-viable pregnancy. It is horrible and soul-destroying, but it has to happen! Just imagine if it wouldn't...

We also often forget that most miscarriages do happen for a reason, ie. there is something specific and definitely wrong with the fetus, which is not compatible with life - however, in most cases, we will never know why the miscarriage happened. Pregnancy science is one of the most undeveloped medical fields, so much is just unknown.

One of the main issues with mc is that it really messes with our relationship with our own bodies...

Girlie worcester definitely think that many fertilised eggs are lost before 14dpo. The last doctor I saw there had the opinion anyone who tests before then is absolutely crazy and he really didn't seem to comprehend why anyone would test until at least then, and actually told me I shouldn't test until 7 days after AF would be due as its not really a proper pregnancy until then. I just viewed him as an idiot. (Not Mr Watts Brummie!!)

So yes Brummie, Mr Watts said clexane from BFP but I am testing way too early and it needs to at least be a proper pink line for them to take me seriously as there is every chance my body will turf this one out before before it's barely begun like the last 2 early losses after faint bfps (which were stronger bfps than this one is so far but am conscious that it's only 9dpo and I am guessing at ovulatiom date as didn't temp.). I am feeling pressure as per normal when I feel them burrowing in, just hope it continues to do so. Going to be a long week.

Girlie can you just make a pain in the backside of yourself with your hospital secretary? See if any cancellation slots are available? I heard nothing for 2 weeks I think it was, and then contacted Monica the secretary and got a cancellation for the following week, so it can happen.

Loopy as your cycles are crazy long, you obviously don't wait until you are "due" so do you reckon about a week until you get a darker line?

girlie my scan is next Monday - the week will be agony but I know I'm lucky to even get this far.

I remember the hystereoscopy wait all to well - Monica ( the Worcester secretary) also got me a cancellation, but for another hospital in Worcestershire. Do you have other other hospitals in your trust that are all linked so you could see about getting an appointment earlier? I know it's clutching at straws but could be worth chasing the secretary

I also get the jealousy thing as well. Ladies that I was on threads with after my first/2nd mc have fallen pregnant again and are now approaching 30 weeks/ maternity leave/ or even had theirs!

I really struggled with that. I had to keep reminding myself they'd still experienced losses but a horrible little voice in my head kept saying "but they've only had 1, they've no idea how I feel and why did I have to keep losing babies?"

I was incredibly jealous

girlie I agree with making a pain of yourself - call every week with a very friendly 'just wondering if there were any cancellations' until your name is known.

cloud nail on the head there. I fucking hate my body right now. I just want a bloody baby, I shouldn't be going through a frozen embryo replacement while my husband is away from home for weeks, we should have been able to have sex and make a baby, and that baby should be over 2 years old by now .
Sorry for the rant, having a very emotional evening. I've not not had more than 5 nights away from dh since we met 6 years ago, and not having him around for almost 4 weeks is starting to sink in, as is what I'm going to be doing without having him to cry on after every scan and blood test....
.

loopy I sway from testing early to not wanting to know until a point where it's more likely to be viable. I've known two women have ivf chemical pregnancies, and I think when there's already that massive weight of expectation and huge emotional investment (and financial) in that one cycle, it's so cruel to think you've finally got your win, then it's snatched away. I tested early for the first two iui's, but held out until 12dpo, with the ivf I held out until the equivalent of 14dpo. If everything goes to plan this cycle I'm intending to hold out until 14dpo equivalent again, not least because it will be less time to deal with the result alone.

Quick message to say I'm here and reading but failing to keep up.

Wanted to say welcome to the new ladies, feathered and teach. There have been quite a few new faces. You've come to the right place.

loopy hope this is it. Congratulations

thorn I hope you're hanging on in there and feeling ok

cloud I can understand what you mean, what you're saying sounds right and natural and certainly makes you think about the theory being questionable. I totally get that if the pregnancy isn't right then it's better it doesn't continue as heartbreaking as it is, but if there is a reason that's stopping these pg from continuing when they might have been healthy, I guess that's what We are all trying to find out. Certainly 'interesting' and mind blowing looking at all the different theories and tests that go into it all, so complex.

Brummie I've given up feeling guilty for being , I've just accepted that I'm not the person I'd like to be in that respect. I'm of women on the infertility threads who got pg after 'only' 2.5 years of ttc #1, or who get pg on their first round of ivf. It's just ridiculous, and I recognise it's not rational behaviour. My second mc was a year ago now (this time last year I was still bleeding) and I honestly didn't think, despite all my problems up to that point already, that I would still be trying to get pg. I believed that my body had shown me it could get pg (with help), and with the thrombophilia diagnosis we knew how to hold on to the next one.

Really briefly as it's the middle of the night and I should be trying to sleep:

Barking - big hugs Xx

Whispered congrats to Loopy and March. Here's to some darkening lines over coming days. I don't think I'm joining you though. BFN on FR today at 10dpo, which I know is still early but I've always got BFPs by then before and I have had no symptoms. Trying to tell myself it's the scratch making my uterus more selective but my heart isn't buying it. Was at my nieces' birthday today which probably didn't help. Hey ho. Maybe next month.

Barking, big hugs. Forgive me, why is Mr Barking away for so long? Sounds like you need someone around for support that's local to you, have you got someone that can step in?

Brummie, sorry for getting your scan date wrong. Hope this week isn't too long x

I have had a chat to myself and told the green eyed monster to go away, as its really not me. Will start to make myself known (again) with another secretary, which is hard when you work full time and trying to do it around meetings etc as its hardly something you can do in the middle of an office! In the meantime will arrange accupuncture and perhaps email Coventry and see when they think the best time to visit them is (I.e before or after hysterscopy) and try and get some control in place.

Girlie I hope your appointment comes through soon, not being able to try is difficult but hopefully worth it so they can do the investigations.

Girlie, get the secretary's email address. I may not work but I have 2 young boys to look after and I can never ever make a call when they are here, it's impossible to have a conversation about anything, never mind something I don't want them repeating words from to other people! I did all my chasing via email. Have never even spoken to Monica.

Did another frer with FMU today and there is a definite line, even one that DH could see. Not dark enough to show up well on a photo yet, but it's a line today rather than the squinting shadow from yesterday. So for now, hcg is increasing and just trying to stay positive, large part of me feels like this one is going to work out, can't explain why, but there is also a big voice in my head saying why should this one be any different, and that I'm older and my eggs might be all crap. And we DTD late on the Sunday night and I think I ovulated on the Friday so what if it's right that it's only crap sperm left by then. And what if I should have taken the progesterone and I lose it because I havent. But then it is increasing in hcg so did I really need it at all, as wouldn't expect AF until Friday so plenty of time left in Luteal phase for it to hopefully get comfy. Sorry for ramblings...

If this one doesn't work out then will have to put ttc on hold briefly as I have a wedding I can't miss next July, and i wouldn't want to have a newborn to contend with at it whilst recovering from a CS. Please God let this one stay put...

Rooting for you Loopy. I thought part of fertilisation was that the 'race' to the egg, and breaking through into it, is kind of a sperm assault course/selection process so in theory a crap sperm shouldn't be able to fertilise an egg?