Week 7 May 22 Low Carb Bootcamp - the penultimate week

[BIWI]

Morning all. Beautiful sunny day here - I hope it's the same for all of us.

Here's the spreadsheet, as ever

So only two more weeks to go. Still time to drop a couple of pesky pounds - perhaps more if you're strict - perhaps return to strict Bootcamp for this last fortnight?

Remember this week's challenge is to find/post recipes for your best salads. (Not allowing @venusandmars to post hers )

Good luck everyone

@APerfectlyGoodName I did feel very smug eating it. And I noticed on that photo you can see my legs and they look very skinny so I'm making that a nsv. 😂

@IveNeverTriedThisBefore you've had lots of good advice already. As @venusandmars says there are lots of reasons why your weight might go up temporarily instead of down. Have you taken up more exercise or are there any potential hormonal issues going on? There are also day-to-day fluctuations that can be as much as several pounds. My brother uses a fitness tracker to monitor his daily energy output and then meticulously tailors his calories to match (he's an ultra-long distance runner) and even he sees huge fluctuations in his weight over time that can't be easily explained. It's also normal for there to be extended periods where there is no weight loss. We don't regard anything less that four weeks as a weight loss stall, that's how common they are, especially if you've dropped a lot of weight initially.

If you're really concerned then my advice would be to log all your food and drink for 2-3 days in My Fitness Pal so that we can see exact values for calories and macros. However that shouldn't be necessary as there are a few obvious areas of attack from your food log. The first is, could you be eating too much? We can't tell portion sizes from your list but I know the Fathead Pizza is hugely calorific. As BIWI says make sure you're getting enough fat intake as a lot of these foods sound a little low in fat and potentially a little high in carbs. I think you're right in pinpointing the dairy. Cream is high calorie and hyperinsulinogenic and is a common cause of weight loss stalls. Looking at your food log, my suggestion is to ditch the cream entirely and limit all other dairy to no more than two portions a day, which is pretty much what you're already doing. Keep up the 16:8, especially throwing in the odd breakfast, at least once a week. Give those suggestions a try and I'm sure the scales will be heading in the right direction ASAP.

Warm veg salad

cook a tray of chopped up med veg , I added more oil , let it cool slightly , added feta and some pesto and more oil and mixed it up
it was delicious
could add olives too if you wanted

@ditavonteesed it was Download, was a brilliant weekend (although the teen didn't touch her Maths revision all weekend and went back to bed afterwards today so Geography tomorrow is probably a write off too!). Good weather for once, pretty chilled atmosphere and I did 20k steps every day so helped the weight stay down 😎
Next weekend is the opposite end of the spectrum, a much smaller festival called LoveRocks and we have friends who are going and in the bands so the alcohol count is likely to be much higher!!!!!
Steak, roast veg and cauliflower for tea, 3l water down and still feeling headachey so more before bed

Thanks @StuntNun for getting back to me, I really appreciate the input from everyone

I didn't realise that cream was was responsible for insulin release, so another good reason to stop that habit.
I don't really have any other issues going on... I am pretty tired over the last few months, I wonder is it post covid or just busy with work and kids. So I try to get 8hrs every night, sometimes it's 7.5hr but I can't do any less as I have a long commute and if I do, I know I'm sleepier and am afraid of driving so I do sleep well. No other issues as far as I can see

I will be more mindful of portions, I didn't finish the pizza last night as I didn't really enjoy it and felt full halfway through. But I think I am guilty of bigger portions of curry etc as its low carb, I feel I can justify it, which is obvs not the case.

Today I had black coffee at my breakfast time along with tomato and avo salad - about 4 medium tomatoes, 1/2 avo (1 full one with some black bits picked out!) Corriander, olive oil & lime.
L: pork, coconut & ginger curry with shoogled veg. This was normal portion as I had portioned them up and put in freezer
D: butter chicken with aubergine and cauliflower rice. It had cream in it, but i had left it out overnight from freezer so didn't want to waste. I think my portion was a bit too big

My sister is visiting this weekend and had been looking forward to a glass of wine with her so had hoped to have lost a bit more in anticipation of that

You need to be aware@IveNeverTriedThisBefore that not everyone is a good responder to low carb and some people actually put weight on it.
Prof Gardner from Stanford University conducted a 12 month study comparing a healthy low carb vs a healthy low fat and there were no difference in the amount people lost in one group or the other. What was striking however was the variability within each group. Some people would lose a lot, and some would gain and not lose anything. There was no way to determine if someone was a good responder to one or the other. I have attached the picture of the result for you to consider and you would benefit from reading the whole study.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5274550/

Bottom line, maybe you are a very poor low carb responder and would do better on other diets. You also need to understand that the science around insulin is very poor outside social media. Just to give an example , beef will raise insulin more than brown rice. Oops , how does that fit into the ditch carb for beef.

You need to decide if you want to follow the science of Youtube/Instagram and people who earn money (be it Youtube ads, subscriptions, and conspiracy books that claim you have been lied to for years on what makes people fat) based on their gospel or follow the science of University professors and medical journals such as JAMA (The Journal of the American Medical Association) .

There is certainly a place for low carb diets for some people. Especially the pre-diabetics. It is however not superior to any other program if you don't have diabetes. Dieting is hard, the best diet is the one that you are able to follow and that gives you the results. It could be low carb, or low fat or plain old calorie counting.

Take the time to investigate the claims of low carb. You will quickly see by looking at science-checker such as redpen reviews that verifies the science accuracy of health/ diet authors that the science presented by low carb authors has roughly 30% scientific accuracy meaning 70% is completely false and misleading. These reviews are independent and made by scientists. You can read the reviews here www.redpenreviews.org/reviews/

Step away from social medial to assess what is good for you.

I posted on the old thread without thinking. 1.5lbs down this week so happy with that. 3 more packs of butter...

Still quite a way to go though. But it's sobering to think that up to Easter I would happily scoff my way through half a pack of biscuits in one go, eat a 100 g bar of chocolate without a thought.. and as for bread and cakes (I bake a lot!).

I haven't had a single bit of bread, cake, biscuit or potato since then. I am not that tempted by biscuits, surprisingly. But I could always murder a chip if I had the chance! The real ultimate test is when I bake bread and brownies(I keep my elderly dad supplied with both), the smell. OMG, But I resist.

Onwards and downwards. Here's to looser fitting clothes!

Hope everyone who is full of germs is feeling better this week.

@IveNeverTriedThisBefore you are doing great, overall you're down, well down, since the start

Another loss for me which I'm really pleased about seeing as I'm halfway through my period and feeling a little heavy!

Hope everyone has a good week and all those who are poorly, especially with man-flu (oh the drama!) get well soon.

Relieved to say that not only has the 4lb gain from last weeks carbs gone, but I also managed another proper pound, taking me to 13st 11 .

Really pleased at being back on the wagon. Totm as well, so hopefully next week will be ok.

I'm going to stick with my Monday weight @BIWI because I'll feel like I'm cheating if I don't.

B - Greek yoghurt, raspberries, double cream
L - nothing (v.busy day so no time)
D - celery, leek, orange pepper and courgette, fried in beef dripping and veg oil, topped with goats cheese.

Fluids: 2x cups of tea. 5x 750ml water.

That's interesting @MatchaTea
I feel very well on LC. It can be a bit monotonous, but I blame myself for that as I'm a bit lazy on the prep, My skin is good, my energy is steady and the rules put together by @BIWI suit my simple brain.
I agree that all diets work to some extent, and find what works for you. I believe that social support is a big contributor to the success of any diet. Most diets however are an industry. They operate at considerable cost (I'm a gold member of WW and I've given SW loads). Bootcamp is free. Join if you like. If it works for you - great. If it doesn't, no loss and move on to something else.

I think dieting is so much about headspace and so much of the food we eat (on LCHF), is restricted on most diets - it also fits the bill as being natural and untampered with food - cheese, butter, eggs, veg. They are really tasty natural foods.

I find your last line a bit patronising

Oh yes - forgot my food
B. Creamy coffee at 8. 3 eggs, spinach & blue cheese at 11.
D at 4. LC wrap with chicken, buttery cabbage, lettuce & tomatoes. Then more chicken and cabbage.

I'm hungry now but I'm weighing tomorrow so off to bed with me!

I've had a rather large blip after my success of getting to normal BMI before the jubilee weekend. Have spent 4 days in Italy and had my first bread, pizza and chips since 10 Jan 😩. I was up 2lb on my pre holiday weight this morning but this is 5lb up from pre jubilee.

So, back on it today and will try to pull the willpower back in again, although I have 2 evenings out this week. Gah!!!

I'm in this for the long run though so this was just a blip. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to reverse.....

Well done everyone for KOKO 👏

I get my new worktops tomorrow so that's v exciting! I may have a kitchen again by end of June. It's will be 10 weeks so im looking forward to it greatly.

@Livelongandprosper - loving the cat updates

@APerfectlyGoodName my last line wasn't meant to be patronising and I understand it was poorly expressed.
The low carb trend is mostly present in social media, creating an echo chamber. By stepping away from social media, so FB, Insta, .. you hear other voices that might offer a different view on their argument. Some YouTubers are very vitriolic and twist the science to a laughable degree.

That's I meant by stepping away.

Social media is also very aggressive and quick in putting the blame on the person either struggling or not losing arguing not enough of "this" or too much of "that" , and this is damaging for anyone struggling and not getting the same results as others. Truth is we are individuals and what works for one, might not work for the other.

@MatchaTea I'm wondering what you hope to achieve by posting a 'low-carb critical' message on a low-carb bootcamp thread? Everyone here has decided that for 8 weeks, they're going to try the low-carb, high fat, moderate protein, unprocessed, diet. If, after 8 weeks, someone has made no progress, they will naturally need to assess which of two camps they fall in to: a) they didn't follow the rules or b) the diet doesn't work for them.

There is no hype here, that I can see. There is a spreadsheet which states the rules. There is a thread for discussion, where posters share the good, the bad, and the ugly. That's it. Nobody is whipping up a frenzy. You'll notice @biwi told someone to 'get something carby' when she was poorly. There's no militancy. If someone falls off the wagon, there is encouragement to KOKO.

For me, I've lost 6" off my waist (mostly bloat, I'm sure) and 5.5kg (12lb) so far. I haven't felt deprived or hungry.

This morning I'm down to 63.9kg (140.8lb). Yesterday's weigh day must have been a blip, as I went from 64.1kg to 64.5kg, to 63.9kg.

Last night after dinner I went for a walk with a friend. 11,240 steps. That was nice.

@MatchaTea there are no results or discussion in that paper you linked to. Where is the information that some people are genetically programmed not to lose weight on a low carb diet?

I'm a firm believer that the best diet for an individual is the one that they'll stick to. Low calorie diets have their place and some people seem to do very well on them. It's also true that low carb diets, now renamed keto even though they often aren't have become wildly popular. I'm on a number of Facebook keto groups and you wouldn't believe the crap a lot of them eat, it's wall-to-wall keto substitutes that are highly processed and full of artificial sweeteners. There's no effort to eat a healthy diet with lots of veg and mainly unprocessed foods.

You also need to understand that the science around insulin is very poor outside social media. Just to give an example , beef will raise insulin more than brown rice. Oops , how does that fit into the ditch carb for beef.
We're not saying to ditch carbs for beef, we're saying to replace carbs with vegetables. Protein intake should remain more or less the same on Bootcamp.

You need to decide if you want to follow the science of Youtube/Instagram and people who earn money (be it Youtube ads, subscriptions, and conspiracy books that claim you have been lied to for years on what makes people fat) based on their gospel or follow the science of University professors and medical journals such as JAMA (The Journal of the American Medical Association).
Trust me, @BIWI isn't making any money from Bootcamp. All she's doing is selflessly devoting her time and energy for over a decade to help other people lose weight. The science is slowly coming around to low carb after years of the entrenched views holding sway and an inability to accept change. It's happening because health professionals and researchers try low carb on their own and discover it works and that has led to a groundswell of support.

There is certainly a place for low carb diets for some people. Especially the pre-diabetics. It is however not superior to any other program if you don't have diabetes.
100% disagree. A huge proportion of overweight people are insulin resistant and benefit from cutting carbs even though they don't have diabetes.

Dieting is hard, the best diet is the one that you are able to follow and that gives you the results. It could be low carb, or low fat or plain old calorie counting.
As I said earlier, I agree with this. I don't think it's because these dietary approaches are equal though, it's because of habit and social factors. When I started eating low carb it was much more difficult to eat out at a restaurant or find something low carb in a shop. There are people who feel that they can't give up carbs because it will be too difficult for them. That doesn't mean low carb wouldn't work for them, it just means they don't see it as worth the effort.

Take the time to investigate the claims of low carb. You will quickly see by looking at science-checker such as redpen reviews that verifies the science accuracy of health/ diet authors that the science presented by low carb authors has roughly 30% scientific accuracy meaning 70% is completely false and misleading. These reviews are independent and made by scientists. You can read the reviews here https://www.redpenreviews.org/reviewss^^/^
This just assesses how well these books align with the current scientific viewpoint which is that it's all about calories and eating fat makes you fat. The good-quality research is trickling through now and is out there. Or look for better books such as Nina Teicholzz* or Gary Taubes that are meticulously researched and referenced.

I think @MatchaTea the proof of the pudding....

There are lots of us here finding LC easy to stick to. I am eating well. My skin looks better. I feel better. I have lost 5" from my waist and 17lb since Easter. I eat lots of veggies and salad (and for long while the health messaging has been that we should be eating more veg than fruit in our 5/10 a day). I eat good quality meat. I eat nuts and seeds. I eat butter and olive oil. I don't eat processed food. I find it easy to stick to - much much easier than Weightwatchers. I did lose w stone on WW pre children but it was hard and I was always hungry

It won't suit everybody, but it suits a lot of people, who find it easy to stick to and they lose weight. They are avoiding processed and sugary foods. What's the problem?

So no-one is interested in Bootcamp Premium then?

@MatchaTea thank you for your contribution.

@MatchaTea joking aside about premiums to be paid, I notice that you only ever seem to post in Bootcamp with your views on weight loss and low carbing. You never - or not in this name at least, as far as I can see - post in any of the other weight loss topics that exist on Mumsnet.

There are two that I would have thought would be right up your street - Slimming World and Weight Watchers - where you can criticise all you like, to your heart's desire - about profiteering from dieters and promulgating the view that being overweight and/or struggling to lose weight is, in fact, the dieter's fault.

And yet you don't. I wonder why that is?

On any of the Bootcamp threads, right from back in 2012 when I started this, I have never said that only low carb diets will work. Like any diet, there are some for who it won't work - although in my experience it's often because people find it too hard to be compliant. There's plenty of evidence that low fat diets will work for some people. If people want to go down that track, they are welcome. But no more Muller Lights for me, thank you very much!

What I do know, after years of trying to lose weight - mainly through calorie counting or low fat diets, (after all that's what we're told to do, right?!) is that low carbing suits me much better. I can eat lovely, tasty and satisfying food. I never suffer from that gnawing hunger that grabs you around 11.00 am and 3.00pm. Even going out to eat is much, much easier - and truth to tell, it has always been so. Going out to eat, wherever you go, it is very difficult to find a place or a meal that will fit with a low calorie or a low fat diet - whereas with low carb it is much easier.

And so Bootcamp was created - by me, for free - as a straightforward, easy-to-follow way of eating, that is low in carbs. The idea behind it was simple: make it straightforward, keep the carbs low, enjoy tasty and (actually, above all) nutritious food.

I have never claimed to be a medic, a nutritionist or a scientist - something I always post at the start of each Bootcamp. I have, however, read quite widely over the years, and what I've read has convinced me of the benefits of a low carb diet - and they go way beyond 'just' weight loss.

I get that you believe otherwise. And that is absolutely your prerogative.

I think @APerfectlyGoodName 's response was perfect

KOKOing today. I'd planned a 40hr fast today but that was predicated on eating well/enough yesterday. In the end I don't think I ate enough so I'm going to wait for another day.

B- black coffee
L- omlette and dressed tomato/cucumber D- a 'salad' of leftover veg tray bake, boiled egg, avocado and fried feta (in ground almonds).

Grr, lost my post so here goes again!

Great to see you Pretty & thanks.

I refused to enter yesterday's 2lb gain. Anyway it's gone this morning plus .6lb loss. Yippee.
Me >>💃💃💃

As an aside I'm not on IG. DC use my YouT - I use it for makeup and yoga. I have zero FB friends (I'm in some hobby groups). No idea about their diet advice, as I don't follow.

Hi @MatchaTea thanks for your input; I appreciate it, as I approeciate everyone here who takes the time to help someone else who is going through the same thing.

I have struggled with my weight since I was a child. I have been on low fat/ calorie restricted/ WW/ SW/ plans from qualified nutritionists for much of my adult life. All of them worked in the initial few weeks but then I get stuck and the weight won't shift

I am a medical doctor (in a very niche field) but in my undergrad training, I got very little teaching on nutrition, even though I believe it is a cornerstone for health. My current role involves giving some (specific) dietary advice to patients, and I just found it crazy that I literally had no training in which to do so

So I read up to educate myself. I have trawled pubmed and have read lots and lots of articles; as it's an area that affects both me and my patients. And from what I can gather it boils down to:

1. all diets work to a degree. There are literally millions of plans you can follow and they will all work, to a degree


2. To work in the long-term, they need to be sustainable

Whilst I struggle with weight; my main aim with my diet is to promote my overall health and longevity. Losing weight is a secondary (although still very important) goal for me. From what I have learned; a LCHF diet does that

I have dabbled in it before, but this is the first time I have gone all in. I have not been hungry once in the 6 weeks I have been doing it. I have enjoyed all my food, as it is 'real food', stuff I can cook for my family, not weird processed 'diet' stuff. I like my food and I still want to have pleasure from it in life. I feel happy knowing that hopefully my metabolic health is (hopefully) better.

I dont know yet if I will wine my battle with the bulge, as it has plagued me for a long time (I am not massively overweight but carry a lot of stomach weight and BMI is high). But I genuinely feel like I am healthier

I really appreciate this forum, it keeps me accountable to myself by posting daily, I find the insight from others very positive, I appreciate the time it must take them and am very grateful for it. Also - it is nice to have an outlet for my diet related frustrations; as I am sure family and friends dont want to hear it any more!

So for now, I will KOKO

BIWI when does the next boot camp start?

I know that I am going to struggle without cereal as I am addicted and nibble dry it straight out the box during the day as well as having it at breakfast time!! I tend to go for fibre ceral as suffer with constipation, so looking for alternatives...

I also struggle to drink enough water, I have a large water bottle with times on but it is in the cupboard. Going to dust it off now and use this afternoon. Any tips for fluid intake?

I also love bread and can be found nibbling this too,as well as having a sandwich for lunch

As you can see I do have a bit of a nibbling habit with carbs!

Haven't jumped on the scales for a while as too scary, but when I glimpse myself in the mirror or in photo's, I am large!

I am 50 so perimenopausal and both my DM and DGM are/were large so guessing partly genetic. Am a lost cause?!