Lesbians: would you date a trans woman?

[Roxietrees]

As a lesbian, I’ve come from the perspective a few years back (when I had a large social circle of other lesbians, some trans men and trans women) of fully supporting all trans rights and the idea that TWAW, to now a few years down the line where I’ve done a total U turn. Due to hearing of a few experiences of lesbian friends & acquaintances who have felt pressured to date trans women, and if they rejected the advances of a trans woman being told they were transphobic by “just reducing a person to their genitals”. While I fully believe in human rights for all and think trans people deserve to be respected and accepted, I don’t believe it’s transphobic to, as a lesbian, only fancy biological women. And I don’t believe lesbians should have to put up with abuse and being called transphobic. IMO it’s erasing and invalidating homosexuality (which, for those of us who were teens pre 2000 was often a very difficult thing to accept and learn to accept in ourselves). Just to now be told “people’s genitals don’t matter”. Fuck that! It makes me sad that some young lesbians are feeling pressured to have sex/relationships with people with penises just because they’re scared of looking like bigots/transphobic.

What I find interesting is that every hardcore lesbian trans rights supporter I know has never ever dated or expressed any romantic interest in a trans woman. If they believe that they are genuinely woman then why wouldn’t they be interested in dating them just like they would any other women?

Totally climbing aboard team LGB Alliance! But to be clear I don’t hate trans people, I believe their struggle is real and that they deserve a life free from discrimination. However, as a lesbian my first priority is always going to be protecting the rights of my own community.

Would be interested in other opinions

I'm not sure I could cope with either a vagina or a hashed up fake penis that doesn't work

PMSL 😂😂

I am a lesbian. It’s not an identity to pick up and put down depending on gender identity or whim and I really wish men would stop appropriating language that isn’t theirs. People can be attracted to whoever they like, decide to sleep with whoever will have them, of course. But lesbian is a word that has a meaning. It means women who are same sex attracted. Words matter. The ability to name ourselves matters. Our erasure is tangible. Don’t be part of the increasingly lesbophobic public discourse that means we cannot meet in public without the involvement or oversight of men. Words matter, self determination matters. Sex matters when it matters. And for this lesbian sex matters in personal relationships.
TLDR: no transwomen for this lesbian and probably no trans men either but many shades of grey there because: still a woman.

I was with men all of my life until recently (age 48, I’ve been dating a woman for over a year now). No more men for me, which rules out trans identifying men. I probably wouldn’t date trans identifying women either. Butch women are hot.

I am really unsure how to process the fact that one of DD's 6th form friends at college (who used to dress more feminine think long bleached blond hair, make up, dresses) than DD (jeans and trainers never a dress or make up) , since Uni days is now trans male, and engaged to be married to a trans female.

@Ariela , How confusing. It is a weird thing for both to set themselves up to lie to their brains. Cognitive dissonance X 10

You like who you like. And you can't help who you like. And that's perfectly fine. I am sexually attracted to men only, and if a woman identified as a man, I couldn't be attracted to them, pre or post op.

I'm bisexual, and I've been called all kinds of horrible names because I don't find transpeople of either sex attractive, but the thing is, there are very specific things about men I find attractive, and very specific things about women I find attractive. The things they do in an attempt to mimic the opposite sex, change these things, and render them unattractive to me.

Exactly this! Thankyou for articulating better than I did!

I haven’t read the full thread, so someone may have answered. I think you and another poster are talking at cross purposes because you are both using the word ‘behave/ behaviour’ slightly differently. Yes, as already established men and woman will have differing behaviours and both groups will change and modify their behaviour depending on the company they are keeping or if taking substances which can alter behaviour / mood.
However if a person mentions ‘behaving like a women’ generally the assumption is made, the person is talking about stereotypical bevaiour, ie flicking hair, being giggly, regularly checking their lippy in a compact mirror etc etc etc, in short ‘behaviour’ which many woman don’t do, so when someone mentions ‘behaving like a women’ what they tend to mean is ‘parodying a women’.

I'd posit that it's less likely for straight women to be attracted to trans men than straight men to be attracted to trans women. For one there is the issue of equipment. Much harder for a trans man to emulate male genitalia than a trans women to emulate female. A straight woman wants to be penetrated, with a synthetic penis that's a lot harder to achieve, a straight man wants to penetrate, which he can easily do with a trans woman (post op or not).

Trans women who have transitioned have frequently talked about the attention they get from men, straight men. Many on MN like to deny this reality by claiming they can spot trans women easy, easy my backside. The fact is many trans women look like very attractive natural women. Videos of trans women porn generates millions of views, and they do so due to the simple fact straight men in growing numbers are attracted to them (post op, or not).

'People with penises' are MEN, some of whom identify as other life forms. But it's just a fantasy, they are in fact men, blokes, geezers, fellows, chaps, gents, males and of course, fantasists.

It all depends on your reasoning. If you met a woman whom you really liked, fancied, then found out she was trans, would that stop you? Even a post op trans woman? Is a lesbian who is in a relationship with a trans woman still a lesbian in your eyes? No one else can police another persons sexuality or who they are attracted to. My partner has been a lesbian since she was 14 y/o, was married to another woman for 10 years, and has only ever been attracted to women. In her eyes, I am a woman, pure and simple. I’m a trans woman, post op since 1992, and yes, I do “pass” in every social situation and interaction, and we’ve been together for 5 blissfully happy years now. We’ve known each other for about 6 years, and she knew I was trans from the start, although surprised when I told her.

if you’re not attracted to someone, don’t date them. It’s that simple. If you are attracted to them, and they are to you, then what exactly is stopping you? I assume you’re not attracted to EVERY woman you meet; everyone has a “type” that they prefer- if you meet someone you like, nothing else should matter.

Finding out someone was trans would be a deal breaker for me. If they hadn’t been upfront and honest from the start that’s a huge red flag.

Any woman in a sexual relationship with a TW isn’t a lesbian. It doesn’t matter how either identify, whether surgery has been had or not, humans can’t change sex, lesbians are same sex attracted, therefore it’s not possible.

It always used to women who love women, or men who love men. Regardless, you don’t have the authority to decide someone else’s sexuality.

or do you believe that lesbians are only lesbians because they haven’t met the right man? Who knew the right man would be a trans woman! 🤣

I do agree with being honest and upfront from the start. Although I don’t introduce myself as “Hi, I’m Betty and I’m trans”, if the situation requires it, and I feel personally safe in disclosing it, then yes, I will tell anyone who needs to know.

No I wouldn’t. I’m sure someone will call me transphobic but I do not have any desire to have a penis involved in my sex life.

I dont understand your middle paragraph. I am a lesbian. I was married to a man. I will never have a relationship with a man again.

Lesbians are women (not men, however they choose to dress) who love women. TW are in no way women, therefore having a relationship with one means you are not a lesbian, it’s as simple as that.

You sound quite homophobic trying to say that men can be women and lesbians can have relationships with them - I mean they can, but that would make them straight or bi, not lesbians.

I think reading the Supreme Court ruling might help you on this, I believe there’s an extensive section on lesbians.

But she’ll still be a girl so what difference does it make to him really?

I choose not to buy into the quasi religious belief that someone can change sex. I treat those who do believe it in same way I treat other religious beliefs - respectful unless their beliefs impinge on my rights. You can believe whatever you want but you can’t make me believe what you do. And lesbian is a word that means something, in law and in practice. It means same sex attracted woman. And if you sleep with or have a relationship with someone who is male the you are not a lesbian.
There is nothing wrong with not being a lesbian, even if you thought you were one for a long time. Sexuality is fluid for many people.
Men cannot be lesbians however they feel about themselves. It’s misogynistic and homophobic to take our language and redefine it.

Absolutely not. Because I am a lesbian, and they are men.

But he hasn't discovered he's a lesbian. Because he's not a lesbian. Because he doesn't meet the criteria for being a lesbian.

That speaks more about you than me. I am a woman, and everyone in my life, especially my partner, accepts me as a woman. If you can’t, that’s your problem not mine.

Did you get a hat and badge when you were made Supreme Leader of all lesbians? Do you know where my partner should send her lesbian membership card back to?

No because they're men. I also wouldn't date a woman who identified as a man because I wouldn't want to deal with the mental health issues associated with that. When DW (a beautiful butch woman) & I first started dating , I was really careful to ask her how she felt about being a woman, to try and mitigate ending up in a long and loving lesbian relationship where one party eventually ponies up the info that they believe they're the wrong sex.
Our Gender critical beliefs have alienated several lesbian friend couples, which seems insane.

Your partner can pretend she’s a lesbian all she likes. That doesn’t make it true. She’s in a relationship with a man albeit a man masquerading as a woman, so at most, she’s bisexual.

It’s just that words mean things. As clarified by the Supreme Court, the word “lesbian” is taken.

No you don’t. You may have sex with those who consent to have sex with you. Just like the rest of the population.