Lesbians: would you date a trans woman?

[Roxietrees]

As a lesbian, I’ve come from the perspective a few years back (when I had a large social circle of other lesbians, some trans men and trans women) of fully supporting all trans rights and the idea that TWAW, to now a few years down the line where I’ve done a total U turn. Due to hearing of a few experiences of lesbian friends & acquaintances who have felt pressured to date trans women, and if they rejected the advances of a trans woman being told they were transphobic by “just reducing a person to their genitals”. While I fully believe in human rights for all and think trans people deserve to be respected and accepted, I don’t believe it’s transphobic to, as a lesbian, only fancy biological women. And I don’t believe lesbians should have to put up with abuse and being called transphobic. IMO it’s erasing and invalidating homosexuality (which, for those of us who were teens pre 2000 was often a very difficult thing to accept and learn to accept in ourselves). Just to now be told “people’s genitals don’t matter”. Fuck that! It makes me sad that some young lesbians are feeling pressured to have sex/relationships with people with penises just because they’re scared of looking like bigots/transphobic.

What I find interesting is that every hardcore lesbian trans rights supporter I know has never ever dated or expressed any romantic interest in a trans woman. If they believe that they are genuinely woman then why wouldn’t they be interested in dating them just like they would any other women?

Totally climbing aboard team LGB Alliance! But to be clear I don’t hate trans people, I believe their struggle is real and that they deserve a life free from discrimination. However, as a lesbian my first priority is always going to be protecting the rights of my own community.

Would be interested in other opinions

I've also wondered how many straight men who are twaw would honestly consider dating a trans woman. My guess is close to zero too.

Yes. Me. I don't even know how to phrase this post because I am so aware that I fall into a chasm between orientations but - I like women and I used to define myself as a lesbian / gay woman. I have had brief relationships with trans women who are fully transitioned in a medical sense. I've begun but not been able to continue relationships with trans men who are fully transitioned in the same sense because they are too male, even if they are female at birth.

I used to call myself a lesbian because the only trans women I am attracted to are those who are fully transitioned, who look and sound and most importantly behave like women - where you wouldn't know until you got intimate and even then you might not know. I appreciate many on this board will not believe such a person exists.

I am gender critical, and once into the discussions about this realised that it was probably wrong to call myself a lesbian if I was open to relationships with people who were male at birth. But I can't call myself bisexual, even though that is probably the correct definition, because I am only interested in women and in males who look so much like women that they are indistinguishable ( a very tiny minority). Turns out lots of bisexual men take that as a personal insult and the entire bi community thinks I'm a terf if I am not interested in men, or women who look like men, or men who look nothing like women.

So my own orientation is 404 error file not found and I joke that I want a flag. But in seriousness that's fine - it's not about me. There will always be edge cases and there will always be grey areas, and I am protected in law if I am in a relationship with a woman or if I'm perceived as such - and frankly, that's a lot more than I'd get in many other countries.

I still want my own flag though 😂

I'm a lesbian, and no. Not pre-op or post-op. I find masculinity/male bodies gross, and trans women still typically have male frame if they've undergone male puberty. I also don't believe you can change sex, though I respect the right of everyone to present how they want to and to do what they want with their own bodies. Just keep out of lesbian spaces.

Lesbians are same SEX attracted females. Transwomen are male. If a women has relations with a TW, they're either straight or bi. They're NOT lesbian.

@WheresMyFlagthe point is even if they have transitioned, they never look or sound like women. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘ behave like women’? so as a lesbian I don’t see how you could be attracted to a TW because essentially they are a man.

So butch lesbians aren't lesbian/ women because they dont look or behave like women? What is "woman" behaviour anyway? Talk about regressive attitudes

Where did she mention butch lesbians? I assumed that "fully transitioned transmen" meant the beardy, breast removing type, not just butch.

I don't think someone 's individual sexual attraction should be called regressive.

But trans women are biologically male, while lesbians are attracted to biological females.

They said behaves like a woman, so what does a woman behave like?

It's not absolutely impossible, I suppose, but very unlikely and only because theoretically I could imagine having a relationship with a very specific sort of man. Certainly wouldn't date any trans woman who actually literally considered themselves the same as me as a biological one.

And would a transwoman date a transwoman?

I missed that bit.

Hmm, interesting. I'd say that it means avoiding the very obviously male behaviour, even through a screen, of the likes of Butterfly et al who adorn our threads so frequently. But that's because it's tedious, rather than a physical effect of the body.

Just date who you fancy. Think of people as people, rather than this obsession with labels and defining on self as a type of gender, sexuality etc.

We are all just fleshbags who think too much.

Focus on more tangible things, like embroidery or mountain biking or keeping chickens, and shag whoever does it for you...

Be fair, she acknowledged that it was difficult to phrase her post well. Her description makes it clear that she would probably only be able to date the most feminine and passing transwomen. They are few and far between IMO, but if @WheresMyFlagcan find them and is happy to date them, that's her prerogative.

where you wouldn't know until you got intimate

Surely they would tell you before that point so that you know what you are consenting to?

In other words would a Lesbian date a man. I'm am not a lesbian so wouldn't date a person of the same sex even if they were trans.

As a straight woman I would not date a transman...

no because biologicaly they are still a male.

@HedgehogOnTheBike I do truly see what you mean, but there are times when sex does really matter a lot, like in hospital wards, inside a prison where females shouldn't be locked up with males, and in centres for rape victims who obviously need to have a guarantee that the place is male-free etc.

Also in sport, it's unbelievable for me that anyone can possibly find it fair of safe to have a trans woman competing against a biological woman. I don't honestly think a fair and decent trans woman would dream of competing against a biological woman anyway.

So the law does matter and someone's biological sex does too.

She said she didn’t fancy them. Which is absolutely fine. Not that they don’t count as lesbians.

It is perfectly fine to have preferences within your preferred gender. I am bisexual, but that doesn’t mean I fancy literally everybody, male or female. There are lots of men and women who I don’t want to have sex with. Nobody is owed a shag by virtue of their gender identity.

Edited because quote I was responding to has detached - I’m talking about butch lesbians still definitely counting as lesbians. Not trans women

A relative of mine has just had an epiphany and come out as a lesbian.
A few weeks ago he shared a post with a boyfriend stating he likes men.
My relative is a transwoman, I assume his boyfriend has decided to transition too and now they are in a lesbian relationship.
So in this case yes but it’s because it suits their sexual orientation.

@eqpi4t2hbsnktd I agree with you, I'm a straight woman and would never date a trans man.

Science needs to catch up fast with this trans situation and find out why those people feel as though they should have been born the opposite sex to what they were. Hopefully then they can truly help those people in a better, more effective and kinder way than the current extreme surgery etc There seems to be a strong connection to autism, so that is presumably (hopefully) being investigated.

I had to read that a few times to make sense of it. That's the joy of the new world we live in, lots of mental wrangling to wrap one's head around what used to be simple concepts.

I'm not a lesbian, but they held a meeting and said i could speak on there behalf😉

Lesbians, fancy other lesbians. A lesbian isn't going to fancy a man in a dress.

No I wouldn’t date a trans woman. It doesn’t matter to me what others do but trans women aren’t women and as a lesbian, I’m only interested in women.