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Legal matters

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Child protection

367 replies

Fairypick · 11/05/2024 21:42

Hi, this is my story and am looking for any advice or guidance in regards to my post. Please don’t judge.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old they sustained unexplained none accidental injuries these were the injuries caused from the Drs review:
2014 baby was presented by his mother at his GP surgery with bruising and swelling to his feet, she was unable to offer any explanation to how an immobile child could have sustained these injuries, baby was then referred to Hospital and examined by a doctor. Baby was found to have linear bruising on the tops of the right foot as well as bruising on the tip of the right big toe and diffuse bruising on the soles of both feet. There was also a small 0.5 superficial scratch on top of baby’s chest and a small 5mm linear bruise on the posterior aspect of baby’s left ear. A skeletal survey also found baby to have 6 healing fractures to the ribs, which appeared to be old ones.
There were concerns that the injuries may have been caused by either mother or her partner (not the. Baby’s farther) and they were arrested and bailed with no further action due to no evidence an interim court order was granted. It is noted that in a court of law and family court the judge determined either mother or her partner had caused the injuries and a Lancashire finding was accepted as neither mother or partner were accepting responsibility for causing the injuries that baby had sustained although the blamed each other at the time of the incident.
As part of this section 47 enquiry SW spoken to both in question about the injuries and they both remain clear that they did not cause the injuries to baby nor can they explain what happened or how it happened. Mother also shared that if she had of caused the injuries she would not have taken her baby to get treatment as she knows this would have got her into trouble. Almost 11 years on me and my partner are now expecting our first baby together, there has been no DV in almost 7 years and we have remained very positive in our relationship since and very much looking forward to the arrival of our new born baby. We were made subjected to a child protection order in January due to a referral and we were very open and honest about this, we have worked very closely openly and honestly with the LA since the order was made and have never dismissed anything to them. We are due to have a review conference shortly before our baby is born and we currently scored a 3 and this still remains a score of 3 in the report from the SW before the next review meeting. However despite working extremely hard and jumping through many hoops we were informed that they will be seeking legal advice and can not define an answer as to what will happen next this was not mentioned in the very first meeting, we have completed all the assessments and tasks even agreed to any plan needed to ensure we get to be a family and keep our newborn baby, no pre birth plan has been completed yet either. The reason being that that they are seeking legal advice from what they have said is is that we are both saying now that we don’t think either of us caused the injuries, LA didn’t realise the seriousness of the past case either. We have consent to having a virtual baby for 48hrs and will do anything in our power to show and demonstrate we are no risk at all. We understand that they have a duty to ensure children are protected and especially newborn a babies we have never dismissed that, yes it’s difficult to tell what happened or why it happened as we do not know ourself, yes I admit I did at that time failed to safeguard my child who sadly sustained injuries. What am asking is really what do you think will happen, do we stand a chance of keeping our newborn baby and maintaining as a family unit or are we losing a fighting battle that we have worked so very hard for? I fully understand their worries and concerns but surely with a lot of positives and the length of time passed we could be given a chance at this? We are more then happy to be placed in a mother and baby unit, a foster placement or a supervision order, the last thing we want is to have our baby removed. Any advice or experience would be much appreciated and please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there. Yes they have expressed in their report that they think the new born baby will potentially be at significant risk of harm when born, but surely if we are not given a chance to prove this wrong they is that not fair at all? We have been told to keep providing for our baby and that they don’t know what the plan of the next steps will be although they have expressed that we have engaged positively since the very beginning and that no DV has been present for many years also.
Thank you for your understanding.

OP posts:
SpoonyFish · 12/05/2024 14:55

OP you claim you feel guilty and are taking responsibility blah blah blah...

Your original question mentioned nothing about leaving the father... and that's skipping over the part where he's a known physical abuser to you who most likely seriously injured your previous child (? 😒🤔 they still exist!!) and has prevented you from having a relationship with them for their entire childhood.

YOU picked your abusive partner for YEARS over your own child (of course their father won't allow contact!!!)

YOU have now made the extremely irresponsible decision to have a child with you and your child's abuser.

You DON'T get it.

I hope Social Services ensure that he cannot harm this child because it is extremely clear that your track record shows a poor chance of you acting protectively of yourself or your child.

If this sounds harsh or nasty to you, then that is further proof that you just do not get it.

adamlambertsbathwater · 12/05/2024 14:55

LauderSyme · 12/05/2024 14:18

Your first post says

"Almost 10 years ago I had my second child"

A number of us including me have asked what happened to your first child, but you haven't answered. Is this because it wouldn't refect well on you and could be yet another cause for concern by SS?

If the answer is distressing for you I apologise for the intrusive question.

She has answered. I highlighted it in one my my previous posts.

She lost custody of that child and that child is (rightly so) with the father.

ncforuchelp · 12/05/2024 14:55

OP. Answer this. In a very short sentences

How did your babies ribs get broken? How did they get their other injuries?

GrazingSheep · 12/05/2024 14:56

@hotpotlover
There is no evidence that the op was not the person who abused her older child.
Your advice is in very poor taste.

lemmein · 12/05/2024 15:03

hotpotlover · 12/05/2024 14:54

Ditch the partner. Then (if you have the funds) move abroad (before you give birth).

This is your only chance to escape ss.

WTF? Confused

PrincessofWells · 12/05/2024 15:03

hotpotlover · 12/05/2024 14:54

Ditch the partner. Then (if you have the funds) move abroad (before you give birth).

This is your only chance to escape ss.

Do you really think this is in any way appropriate advice, not least because this child would be in extreme danger of serious harm or death at the hands of this person.

namechange1105 · 12/05/2024 15:04

hotpotlover · 12/05/2024 14:54

Ditch the partner. Then (if you have the funds) move abroad (before you give birth).

This is your only chance to escape ss.

Do not be so silly,, SS should remove this baby.

Silvers11 · 12/05/2024 15:05

@Fairypick - what was the referral for in January this year? And who was the Child Protection order designed to protect which was made at that time? You say in your post that the baby who was injured was your second child. What happened to your first child?

Silvers11 · 12/05/2024 15:07

adamlambertsbathwater · 12/05/2024 14:55

She has answered. I highlighted it in one my my previous posts.

She lost custody of that child and that child is (rightly so) with the father.

No - she has answered what happened to her second child ( the one who was abused and injured) She hasn't said anything about what happened to her very first child. The new baby will be her THIRD child, according to her OP

Jux · 12/05/2024 15:08

Haffiana · 12/05/2024 14:43

Do you understand how manipulated narcissists work?

Do they work just like you?

Post 1 "We just want to have our own family, we don't have any DV anymore, we DEFINITELY didn't injure my first baby, give us a chance"

Post 2 "He did it all, it was him looking after my first baby. I am going to get rid of him and have my baby all by myself, I failed to safeguard my first baby and although the situation is EXACTLY THE SAME WITH THE SAME MAN AFTER 11 WHOLE YEARS, look, I promise I am going to change it."

Post 3 "I didn't safeguard yeah, but It wasn't my fault, he manipulated me"

The Inevitable Future: "He made me take him back and he manipulated me into allowing him to abuse my new baby.."

Now do you understand why SS and everyone else thinks that you are a risk?

This for sure. Sorry OP, I think you have no chance.

My other concern with this thread is that OP's posts read a bit like AI, not a human. If it is a human writing this then they have 0 empathy or understanding of emotion.

LauderSyme · 12/05/2024 15:11

hotpotlover · 12/05/2024 14:54

Ditch the partner. Then (if you have the funds) move abroad (before you give birth).

This is your only chance to escape ss.

Yes, move away from your roots and culture, your social ties and everything else familiar to you and go abroad to be alone with your baby and your unsupported EUPD.

That sounds like a risk free plan in the best interests of Baby.

This is sarcasm. Don't do this OP.

adamlambertsbathwater · 12/05/2024 15:20

@Silvers11

She has.

The first child she lost custody of and is with the dad, and the dad had refused to get her see her eldest son. (Again, rightly so) and she stopped trying to see him as it was effecting her mental health. She said it I think in her 2nd post.

ShyPoet · 12/05/2024 15:21

You have had two babies taken out of your custody. That makes it extremely hard to keep your third baby.
Get some legal advice OP from specialist lawyers.
You also need to have left your partner, demonstrate insight into why your other babies were taken away from you and your part in it, and demonstrate what you would do different this time. If you simply blame others then you are unlikely to be able to keep your baby.

adamlambertsbathwater · 12/05/2024 15:21

'My previous child is with his birth farther who was ordered to let me have contact with but has dismissed the court order and therefore I have not seen my pervious child in 10 years this is extremely sad for me as you can imagine'

@Silvers11

This is in her 2nd post. And on her 3rd she goes on to say how she stopped trying.

igomeow · 12/05/2024 15:24

" My case is very serious am not dismissing this at all, yet I'm being labelled like I did the crime "

It's not a race to the bottom op, the other cases you mentioned of abusers keeping their babies are irrelevant, like you they should not have been allowed to keep their children.

You're being labelled like you did the crime because of your actions after your baby was injured 11 years ago.

There was a poster on here a while back whose husband fractured her babies ribs while she was asleep.. She took her baby straight to hospital and left her husband on the spot along with helping the police/social services secure a conviction against him, you could tell from her posts how devastated she was for her baby and the hatred she had within minutes for her husband.

You didn't do this, you denied hurting your poor baby while talking complete nonsense about you don't know who did, This is bullshit... You know!!!

If it wasn't you it was your boyfriend, most people on learning a man had hurt their child would want to kill them.

A loving mother doesn't act like you. You've spent the last 10 years sleeping next to this piece of shit?!?
Knowing full well what he's capable of doing to defenceless baby, doesn't look good does it!!

Uricon2 · 12/05/2024 15:24

adamlambertsbathwater · 12/05/2024 15:21

'My previous child is with his birth farther who was ordered to let me have contact with but has dismissed the court order and therefore I have not seen my pervious child in 10 years this is extremely sad for me as you can imagine'

@Silvers11

This is in her 2nd post. And on her 3rd she goes on to say how she stopped trying.

. "My previous child is with his birth farther who was ordered to let me have contact with but has dismissed the court order and therefore I have not seen my pervious child in 10 years this is extremely sad for me as you can imagine, the baby am expecting now is with my current partner who at the time looked after my pervious child who sustained the injuries. "

It is all very unclear but I'm reading this as the "previous child" being the baby with injuries. 10 year timescale fits that too. I could be wrong.

Fairypick · 12/05/2024 15:27

Not once have I been rude to anyone that has commented I’ve been quite respectful in all of your opinions I’ve been open and honest in every post written and asked for advice and how you think I should go about this I thought this was a safety place to express yet the amount of abuse thrown at me is quite concerning to say the least not to mention the impact it could cause to to anyone’s MH let alone mine I knew they wouldn’t be all that nice but am quite horrified 😳😮

OP posts:
Silvers11 · 12/05/2024 15:29

''....... please don’t judge we are not horrible bad people just two people who would very much like the opportunity to show we can care, protect and love our child to the best of our ability with the support of the LA until they feel satisfied that the risks are no longer there''

I'm sure that is true @Fairypick and I am not judging. I sat on children's panels in Scotland for a number of years and we saw many people in your circumstances and similar. I would say 100% of them 'loved' their children and were desperate to get them home but the only criteria in deciding which children got to go home (eventually) and which were never sent home, was what was in the best interests of the individual child or children. That HAD to be the focus of any decisions.

Sadly, some people, no matter how much they thought they loved their children, were simply unable to understand exactly what was required to keep their children safe and couldn't do it. No matter how much they wanted to and no matter how much help they got from SS.

From everything you have said, you sound as if you do NOT understand everything required to keep your child safe. Staying with a partner for 10 years who presumably caused major harm to a defenceless 8th Month old and then getting pregnant with him is a HUGE red flag. If you didn't do it, then clearly he did - but SS can't be sure which of you was responsible. I'm sorry and I feel for you, but I would be very surprised if they don't take the baby away from you

Hermittrismegistus · 12/05/2024 15:31

the impact it could cause to to anyone’s MH let alone mine I knew they wouldn’t be all that nice but am quite horrified 😳😮

Pity you weren't so horrified about abusing/allowing the abuse of your baby.

Silvers11 · 12/05/2024 15:34

adamlambertsbathwater · 12/05/2024 15:20

@Silvers11

She has.

The first child she lost custody of and is with the dad, and the dad had refused to get her see her eldest son. (Again, rightly so) and she stopped trying to see him as it was effecting her mental health. She said it I think in her 2nd post.

Almost 10 years ago I had my second child and at around 8 months old.......

Nope. She hasn't said. If the injured baby was the second child - what happened to her first one?

SpoonyFish · 12/05/2024 15:39

Fairypick · 12/05/2024 15:27

Not once have I been rude to anyone that has commented I’ve been quite respectful in all of your opinions I’ve been open and honest in every post written and asked for advice and how you think I should go about this I thought this was a safety place to express yet the amount of abuse thrown at me is quite concerning to say the least not to mention the impact it could cause to to anyone’s MH let alone mine I knew they wouldn’t be all that nice but am quite horrified 😳😮

You asked for advice, you've been given it. You don't understand what abuse really is, that's clearly part of the issue.

Advice:

  1. Leave your abuser
  2. Engage with everything that Social Services requests of you (even if that means your newborn going into care)
  3. Go to therapy and work on your issues
  4. Come back to this thread and update us that you understand where we were all coming from and that nobody here is "abusive".
Uricon2 · 12/05/2024 15:40

You had choices that could have lead to a different outcome OP. You could have left the man you believed abused your baby, rebuilt your life and learned from the experience, you might even have been able to coparent with that baby's birth father in time, if you'd put the effort in. If you had then later met someone else and become pregnant, social services would still have looked closely at the situation but there would be a good chance you would have been able to keep the baby. It happens.

Instead you stayed with him, got pregnant by him and expected social services to allow you to keep the baby. I think it vanishingly unlikely that they will, because nothing has actually changed since that 8 month old had significant injuries.

ETA, ultimately it is the decision of a Court, but the judge will be basing their decision on exactly the same lack of change.

Shiningout · 12/05/2024 15:40

Fairypick · 12/05/2024 15:27

Not once have I been rude to anyone that has commented I’ve been quite respectful in all of your opinions I’ve been open and honest in every post written and asked for advice and how you think I should go about this I thought this was a safety place to express yet the amount of abuse thrown at me is quite concerning to say the least not to mention the impact it could cause to to anyone’s MH let alone mine I knew they wouldn’t be all that nice but am quite horrified 😳😮

Sorry op but I'm quite horrified at what happened to your poor baby and shocked at your actions to stay with the man and have another baby with him now. Sometimes the truth hurts and I think you need to hear these comments tbh

ana7887 · 12/05/2024 15:46

Who else is just deeply sadden by this post. I came across this post yesterday and been thinking about it non stop all day today...

How can this still be happening... also really sad to read all the nasty comments. Although some of them have valid points please don't judge... it seems to me that OP is completely alone in all this and have no guidance nor support nor moral compass... let's please don't forget that everyone grew up in different circumstances and somehow life has brought OP to this point. Please don't read as excuses to any of what happen..just sad to realise that for some this is a reality.

My advise to you OP is... you can't start from scratch with this baby.. Unfortunately you are where you are and if you are looking to change that you need to acknowledge everything that happened before. Rectify all the mistakes. Stay away from your current partner if you know he abused your child, move out. Work with SS on whatever they need. Find some support. Probably it won't be easy and a lot of ppl will be sceptical to you and your new choices. It's part of making things right...See if you can have a relationship with your other child...

This is all of course only if you are genuine and not trying to trick the system to get away with smth...

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