Adjourned, dismissed or full hearing?

[user1499775533]

I was due to attend the Family court with my exes mother on the 11th of September but unfortunately my grandmother suffered a major stroke on the 5th of September so understandably I didn’t attend as I have more important things on my mind. I emailed the court explaining and giving my grandmothers name and ward number but have heard nothing since! Cafcass did say that any contact with my baby would have to be arranged between my exes mum and myself but they also suggested sticking to the no contact that the police had put in place to prevent her abuse and harassment. My other threads explain it all. I also recieved no safegaurding letter from cafcass prior to the court date. I’m just wondering if the court has thrown it out seen as she’s never seen my baby and in legal terms is no relation. I did email the judge when I first received the papers asking for him to change their mind based on all of the facts so unsure if this has been accepted. Also on the same application for my baby she’d asked for a whole day with my elder Daughter who she sees for 2 hours a month with her son then she asked for a separate contact order with my 1 year old who she has never seen!!! I’m hoping a court can see her games and see the pattern that’s forming and hopefully put an end to it. Any advice would be appreciated.

You keep stating opinion as fact. Like the best place for a visit is at home with the main caregiver. That's your opinion.

Honestly this sounds more about you and the grandmother. I don't think your ex has done you any favours by refusing to speak to canvass despite apparently agreeing with you - sounds more like he doesn't want to get involved.

Okay, well in my opinion I think very young children have a right to visit extended family in their comfort zone and whether the OP agrees or not they are my children and as a parent you do what you believe is right for your kids and raise them in the way you think is right. The OP had her children and had an opportunity to raise her children how she liked. If the shoe was on the other foot I can imagine how she’d react. And my ex doesn’t want to get involved. He thinks it’s ridiculous and doesn’t agree with the constant court thing, it is escalating situations a lot more.

@user1499775533 OP = Original Poster. That means you.

I’ll just stick to other person then. Thanks for the heads up.

I think that you really need to put aside your feelings about why she's doing this or if court action is necessary and try (even though it's hard!) to look at it as a neutral observer would and write down a list of reasons why you think she shouldn't have contact at her house.

At the moment she has established contact with your eldest DD and unless there's something that's happened that you haven't mentioned here, that's unlikely to change. However, your disdain for your children's grandmother shines through your posts and if you take that to court with you, they may very well think that it would be best for contact to happen in a less stressful environment, away from you.

Don't look at the substantive part of her application. The hearing is for permission to proceed. Going in to the reasons why you think she shouldn't have contact is not what the hearing is all about.

How likely is permission to go through for both of my children? It seems like whether I agree to it or not then it may go through anyway. I’ve accepted that for my elder Daughter it will be different because she’s already established a relationship with my consent. The cafcass officer did say the main focus on the court would be if my Daughter can stay for 4 hours and that ideally any contact with my baby would be down to the other person and I to arrange.

I do need to and I’m keeping calm and collective but it’s literally head over heart. Because they’re my children it’s a very emotional time and my feelings towards the whole thing are going to be completely different to the other person. I have not once bad mouthed her to cafcass or the police, I’ve just stuck to the facts and answered any questions put to me. I think you really have to be a mother yourself to feel how I feel, it’s never been about regular contact, it’s been about control, lack of boundaries and disregard of me as the mother to my children and my right to live a family life, that was all destroyed when she began doing this. I feel she won’t stop until I had my parental rights over to her because I honestly believe she feels her role in my daughters life should be a mother and not a grandparent. Imagine for a second how you’d feel if you were in my position! Mentally it has effected me massively. I’m not worthy enough to be the mother to my Daughter and her lack of respect and hate shows in all of her applications. I always thought court was last resort but it’s first resort to her if she feels she’s not getting what’s she’s entitled to get.

She has permission for one they will likely grant the same for the other

Even though she has had no contact with my baby?!

I thought child arrangements orders were for contact with children when previous contact was happening but denied etc?

It may be that they don't think it will be in your DC's best interests for one to have contact and the other not, as it would be treating them unequally.

She sounds a horrible person, and I really feel for you, but I think to emotionally get through this you need to see what part you've played in the situation and not be in 'victim mode'.

The thing is on her application is she’s not asking for contact with them both together which would probably make more sense to a court. She put on her application she’d like 2 half days or 1 full day with my elder Daughter and regular contact with my baby. I suspect she slapped my elder Daughter on that application because I called the police. She told the police it was ‘the little one she was after’ and that’s why she was doing what she was doing. I have already told cafcass to have a whole day would be impossible because my Daughter is at full time nursery then school next year. She visits monthly midweek after 5 with her dad. And now she’s suddenly dropped it to 4 hours according to cafcass. And you wouldn’t believe how manipulative she is but the problem I face is she doesn’t show this face in court, it’s all underhanded games.

Right now I’m in survival/fight mode. I have to be to get through this. If I show anymore weakness or emotion around her this will feed her more, she would of been expecting me to break down already and given in to her demands. I actually do thing I have to face this and deal with it, she’s the kind of woman that court maybe is the only way to deal with her and maybe the only way I can live a normal life again and just be a mum without the threat and fear of court if she feels she’s not getting what she’s entitled to get.

I imagine she's asking for that at first as it's been explained to her that the younger one is too young for that arrangement and she's seeking regular contact with a view to building up to equal contact with them both. She was probably advised that a whole day was too much too, that's why she's dropped it down to 4 hours.

This does show that she's taking advice and listening, and frankly-you're not. Do you really think having visitation at your house is tenable if you're calling the police on her?

At this stage she's asking for permission. You need to seriously think about why they shouldn't give it to her, not get ahead of yourself about the logistics. 'Because, I'm their mother not her' isn't going to cut it.

No hun, I haven’t said that there should be visits at my house. When she first reached out I suggested meeting at a play centre monthly with both children on the day she sees my eldest but she refused that, I really tried to nip it all in the bud and see if we could move forward but I heard nothing from her then in September we arranged a phone call where she used that time to shout, swear and name call. She made it clear if I didn’t put my baby in a car seat and hand her over then she’d take me to court. Then I heard nothing until December and she’d refused an offer of a play centre again and then in June she put the mediation letter through the door and to me that’s a direct threat from her so I called the police. I have told cafcass my reasons for doing so because it was getting too much with her and parenting is hard without the threat of court constantly. I have told cafcass I’d be more than happy to meet with both of my children in a neutral place then she gets to see them both but she doesn’t want that, she wants orders on them to get them away from me! I dislike the woman but if I have to sit in a play centre with my kids for another 15 years then I will if it means we can live normally and I have to show her my boundaries and stick to them for future reference.

I have to show some willingness I know and I am even though this woman is a toxic person and I don’t want her around either of my children but they will make their own mind up. And I’d rather be there then be forced to hand them both over unsupervised, my duty is to protect them and to be able to supervise my children but the other person does not like any kind of boundaries or the idea of people living a happy family life so this is why she’s never wanted this but she will have to explain to the court why.

Also my elder Daughter is a very bright child and she’s of age where she knows there’s conflict between us and asking questions, she has repeated things she’s heard at the other persons house. In the future this could be very dangerous and children shouldn’t have to carry the weight of things like this or be involved. Emotionally this will effect her if it’s not resolved. This is why I have tried to negotiate contact in a neutral place but I can’t change who I am to fit into someone’s box. The cafcass officer said it sounds like you just need some respect and that couldn’t be more accurate.

I think it's a shame that you didn't go to mediation as it may have avoided court. She needs to listen to you and I imagine she wants some reassurances that contact can't be removed or changed.

he’s completely fed up too and doesn’t want us to argue over this anymore because our arrangements are working at the moment and we get on very well which is positive for the kids.

Except it's not positive for your youngest is it? Because her own dad doesn't want anything to do with her but does with her sister? How on earth is your youngest going to feel growing up with both parents not acknowledging she has the same dad as her sister?

I would be interested to hear the grandmother's side to this story. She seems to be the only one acknowledging they are both equal family.

I just think it’s a shame she started the court route anyway. From my experience it’s definitely not the way and if she succeeds in this application she’s only getting the contact she’s asked for, in the long run she misses out on christmas, bdays etc and not to mention the strain it’s causing with her own son but I’ve learnt some people in life can be like this. Not everything is black and white

My ex partner treats both children the same. He doesn’t want to have to take our elder Daughter to his mothers house every month because it is extremely controlling and his life is busy, he was happy with his mother visiting at my house like she did in the beginning but he agreed too for a quiet life but now he refuses to engage in anymore children being sent there or anymore orders and I respect him for that. My ex has always said he has massive respect for me and what I do for our kids and said that the children should be with me and doesn’t agree with these applications to get them away. This is his own mother and for him to be supporting me over her shows me that there is much more to her and that her behaviour hasn’t been right.

He treats them the same.. so he doesn't want to see or have responsibility for either of them? I'm not following..

How is he supporting you? Telling you what you want to hear while not parenting the second child and refusing to tell carcass his views

He doesn’t want orders placed on them. He doesn’t agree with it and the whole court process. And he doesnt want to have any parental responsibility for the baby. He believes that things can be done by just talking but if I’m honest he knows what his mother is like too and she enjoys the whole court process to ensure she gets her own way. But regardless of PR etc I am the main Carer to my baby’s and she is in a set routine, at this age it’s all about routine, an order would not be suitable.