Multiple failures, a place to chat

[Zippybear]

Anyone else out there with multiple failures wondering what to do next? We've just had our fourth embryo transfer fail. Issues on both sides. In the last year I've had two surgeries, dh has had one and we are still no further forward. We haven't had a holiday that wasn't time off for ivf since 2015. We feel battered and bruised and stuck on a hellish infertility rollercoaster that we can't get off unless we want to accept childlessness we have another nhs cycle but I'm not sure I can cope with it (or if there is any point). I don't know whether to give up, think of donor, adoption or just accept our lot. Anyone else wondering the same?

Good morning,

Thank you all so much for sharing your understanding with me. I suppose that is a double edged sword in a way because whilst I feel relieved that this is a normal reaction, I'm so sad for you all.

Potato link came at an apt time yesterday and I read a lot of the articles on not feeling worthy. That's exactly me.

Three times this week I have been excluded from things because I am not a mum. My oldest friend is going to a silly concert in December, we went together twenty years ago. I joked that I couldn't believe she was going again without me and she said it was just the mummies going. that's from someone who in fairness has been a lovely friend and support.

My niece has a sporting event in a big city in October. My SIL asked me to go with her and stay over so she had some company whilst niece was playing. She text on Thursday saying it's going to be all the mums and they are having a night out so I am no longer needed.

Then yesterday I was meant to meet other SIL for a walk. She messaged saying mums and babies were going on mass so best I didn't come as babies might not like dog. and they were going straight to baby group afterwards. The walk is a route round town and dog would be on a lead or left at home. It was just an excuse.

I also echo the comments regarding career. I have not worked a full week this year. This is noticed. So much time off for appointments and treatment it's crazy. The line of work I do as well I frequently get told yes but you don't really understand because you don't have your own children. Makes me want to scream. I'm appointed by the court to safeguard children when the parents are unable to do so. So yes actually I do understand, I understand abuse when I see it.

Zippy I've often thought that. I said to dh the other night that I am just so sad. He said so am I and I don't have anyone to talk to. (Other than me).

The feeling like a failure part as well, earl grey that is so true. Dh parents said to him we want to pay to get this sorted. Yes because it's that simple. Makes me feel unwell it really does.

Maybe we should have a group meet up. I'm seeing a huge house, maybe in a beach with lots of wine and laughs. No children, and yes I'm bringing my wee dog. . I know it would never be possible but I'm feeling all sentimental about you all this morning and wish I could give each of you a big hug and thank you properly. If it wasn't for you I honestly don't think I would still be here.

Fourpaws I read your post yesterday and can only now reply. I actually thought this woman is me!

I feel so lonely and worthless. My last friend that didn't have children announce her pregnancy a few months ago (in a very hard way cumulating in her husband messaging me to reflect on my behaviour given her condition). I feel like I have no one. I have good friends, but they are busy with their family and I've cut myself off from them. I turn my phone off when work finishes. I don't call or meet them, as it's a reminder of all in my own life that is missing. I'm an only child and have no siblings. I worry constantly how I will survive the loss of my parents without children of my own. I have actually distanced myself from my wonderful mum as it hurts too much as I'm obsessed by worrying about how I'll survive if I don't have her. Over the last 18 months I've given work about 30% effort as my heads not in. I'm well paid, but I don't enjoy my job. We are lucky that we have a good income and ivf hasn't totally depleted us financially, so I book holidays and buy clothes in the hope of feeling better; guess what it makes no odds. My dogs are my life and in many ways my children. I adore them and them me. Looking after them is maybe the only think that I feel worthwhile from.

My husband struggles, but copes better. He has friends
that don't have children. He throws himself into golf. We are both in sad, but different places.

The thought of living such an empty life for maybe the next 40 years fills me with dread.

I think we all feel so sad and lonely because of our shitty luck x

Spinduffy - I'm a regular namechanger but have been on this thread a few times since it started. I stopped coming on after our last and final IVF cycle in June as I thought I had better disengage from anything infertility or TTC related to help me move on.

I saw this in active convos though and had to post.

Your post could absolutely have been written by me. I'm not an only child but I may as well be - my sibling lives on a different continent who I see maybe once every 5 years. I have no nieces or nephews and never will do.

I have never read about anyone else being terrified about their mum going, but that's me too. I honestly don't know how I'll cope. I dread it and think about it often. Yes I'm married but there are no guarantees he's still going to be around when I'm old and grey. I said to a friend yesterday that I'm utterly terrified re what will happen to me. What if I need taking to a hospital or something and I have literally no living relatives around? People who have nieces and nephews and siblings nearby are so lucky. I am so envious of them.

This sounds dramatic perhaps and it's my time of the month, so not a good time to write about this perhaps, but I do just see a void ahead that fills me with dread.

I would actually be very up for a meet Fourpaws. I would love to have women friends in my life who know and have experienced what we're going through.

I'd also love to bring my dog.

all

NB. I'm not saying people with nieces or nephews have it easy, sorry I should really clarify that. Just that I really empathised with what Spinduffy feels and it can feel like another layer of loneliness and vulnerability. I know that some nephews and nieces may be totally unhelpful / not close to you either.

Can so relate to what people are saying regarding feeling the need to prove yourself in another area because you don't have a child. I've never been ambitious. All I ever wanted was a family tbh. Now I just feel abjectly useless because I'm failing on both counts.

zippy I had a Hysteroscopy with Serum in July and they sent me away to ttc naturally, Now I'm on cd52 with no ovulation/period. My body is fucked. Next step is natural cycle, but how I'm supposed to do that with irregular cycles I don't know. I feel like a hopeless case who is beyond help atm.

fourpaws I am so angry and sad to hear about your friends and relatives recent treatment of you. Your best friend and SIL are appalling. Just exactly what baring does being a mummy have on you attending these events? I am so, so sorry that they are treating you like this. People's selfishness and lack of compassion is truly staggering.

spinduffy I remember you text message thread. I hope you managed to resolve things? If you wanted to of course. Your friends both sounded utterly unbearable. What you say about your mother struck a cord with me. I worry so much about my parents dying before I've made them grandparents. I live in London and they are in North East. DH and I really want to move back there and buy a house. We can't though because we are having to keep our money for fertility treatment. I feel like the future I want can't happen until I have a baby. I'm just stuck in limbo.

So sorry we are all so sad. I feel quite heartbroken for us all today. DH and I are off to a music festival and I don't really want to go. It seems like a remnant from my former life where I could party like a normal person. I feel like that woman doesn't exist anymore.

to all. It is just so fucking unfair.

A further thought (I should really think before I post!). I'm not just worried about having no one to take me to a hospital when I'm old and grey. I'm worried about having no one who will love me in a way that only your family and closest friends really do, I'm worried about having no one to call daily, to spend Christmases with, someone to remember your birthday. The prospect of loneliness is just terrifying. My mum is in her 70s now and just writing this now is making me tear up. I saw an old episode of the Darling Buds of May on tv the other day where it was Ma wotsits birthday and all her kids piled on the bed with birthday cards and breakfast in bed. It was all I could do to stop the tears from streaming down then, which was really silly. But the fear is real, I think. And I don't know what to do about it or how to stop feeling this way.

I even popped down to our local Quaker meeting house one day as a one off to see if it might give some peace in a meditative way. They were lovely, although all talked about their kids and grandkids .

Isthismummy yes I know just what you mean about how an old you doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Ladies, some really moving and sad posts on here this morning.

It's just so surreal sn't it, being in this situation, then having to deal with your own emotions, other people's shit support and dealing with your life.

Those group meet ups were so mean fourpaws to exclude you, I felt so sad reading that. You ALWAYS have us to chat with 💜 Am sending huge virtual group hugs this AM , I feel we all need it.

Going back to the lack of IVF funding/fertility discrimination stuff, I was talking with family (who are fully aware of my situation) and I suggested that if we are looking to help the NHS why not limit free maternity care to 1 child or 0, and any further children need to be self funded. I was told that is was massively unfair bc maternity care was a right and ppl needed to have children (!) Was I potentially being bitter bc I've spent £££ on treatment. I said no, it's nothing to do with being bitter, but that's the only statement I can make to make (albeit provocative) ppl think about the situation infertiles are in to understand how unfair funding/treatment is for IVF. It's just a different start point. But People just do not get it, if they are not faced with it.

As the wise bananafish (who I hope is ok and still out there) said: infertility is not the responsibility of infertile couples, I usually say this in response to the adopt statement.

I like that argument re maternity care MrsFW - I'm going to remember that one!

Lechat I always Amin tears at things like that on tv. Childhood was very lonely form and my 30s (which I'm just clinging on to) has also ended up very lonely as I'm the only childless one and I suspect my old age will be even worse.

My Gran is still alive at 89 and in a nursing home. My mum visits her daily and brings her lovely treats, ensures her care is good etc. I actually find it difficult to visit her as all I can do is be self absorbed and think that when I'm that age no one will visit or care for me and on some level I feel a sense of envy. My fears of loneliness as a result of infertility make me distance myself, as I know that's how life will end up anyhow.

I always was quite outgoing and had a big social group, but as I've got older and suddenly become different, I've become almost reclusive.

I'm so relieved to hear that I'm not the only one who feels like this and fears the future x

Completely empathise with lack of family. It's something that's really hit me this year and something I'd never really thought about but I can see a time in the not to distant future when I'll have no family left. I have no cousins and my older brother is unlikely to have kids and I'm the youngest in my family (at the grand old age of 42) so my family will die out. I didn't think it would bother me but it does, and not just because one day I might be the only one left alive and noone will even bother coming to my funeral but in a 'noone will ever look at their family tree and see me on it' way. I might be some forgotten distant branch of someone I've never met but there's noone who will be even a close descendant - maybe some second cousin or something. It's a weird feeling - I'll just be lost in a dead branch.

I guess what's got me thinking about all this is not only the realisation that we aren't going to be that lucky couple that overcomes infertility and gets their miracle but also last year my mum's brother died suddenly (ie my uncle) and we've been supporting my aunt (they were childless) in so many ways since then (she has no other family) and I realised that if/when that happens to me then there will be noone to do the same for me, I'll just be alone.

Spinduffy and Tammy it is a relief to know you're not alone! I have a few friends without kids but absolutely none of them have no nieces or nephews.

I also feel totally envious of older people with loads of family. My DH's gran has six kids, something like 20+ grandkids, countless great grandkids. You can fill a whole restaurant with her descendents. If I were to end up on my own, I seriously don't know who would be there for me. I don't even have a single cousin in this country. I have cousins on my mum's side, but they all live abroad.

It's quite scary, and I've just turned 40 and wondering if I'm having some kind of a midlife crisis. This fear of ending my up totally alone is probably contributing to it quite a lot.

to you both

Got Tammy that resonates. A few years ago my aunt died. She never married and had no children, but her 3 nieces were by her side through her illness. I will have no one when that time comes. I honestly think about this everyday and worry a lot about it.

God it's a sad comfort that there are so many of us who feel so much the same

When the awful terrorist attacks happen, I sometimes feel as though I should feel more unnerved about travelling on the tube etc as some other people do. Or getting blown up by Kim Jong Un. I say that in jest, but the fact is it wouldn't really matter if I wasn't here. I'd be sad for my DH and family if I wasn't, but I wouldn't care about dying because, well, I wouldn't be here

When I had my cancer scare earlier this year, I can honestly say I wasn't afraid (although DH was). My thought was 'I don't have time to have cancer' and 'well at least if it's ovarian cancer and I have to have them removed, we've got the embryos' or 'well my uterus doesn't work anyway, so what's the big deal if I have to have a hysterectomy anyway'.

I lost my Mum nearly 5 years ago and I do find family get togethers hard, because my cousins have their kids and their parents get to be grandparents - and yet I don't have a Mum and I can't be a Mum either. My brother and SIL are also struggling, so I fear they may be heading down the IVF path too

I just sort of think that without having a child that I don't really have any kind of legacy and really it wouldn't make much of a difference to the world if I was here or not.

Banana I remember your struggles from when I was on this thread (and another previous one) before. Sorry to be such a liberal giver of today but there's a bunch for you too.

I often think it doesn't matter if I'm not here. If I accidently got clobbered on the head by a falling rock etc. It's a sense of a big void ahead that gets me. I'm 40 - what the heck do the next 40 years bring. How can I bring any happiness and light and fun to it? I try...I've taken up so many new hobbies since our last failed IVF you wouldn't believe. And my lovely dog has got his head resting on my lap right now. But I'll be buggered if he can visit me and bring me treats when I'm in my nursing home.

Banana I feel the same- I fear nothing as what's the worst that will happen... I die?!? Also my friends have all become nervous flyers since having children, in case something happens. No one dependents on me.

Lechat I have also taken up many hobbies- totally crossfit fanatic, volunteer in an animal rescue centre and level started evening classes. Life still feels every bit as empty and as I meet new people the inevitable 'what age are your children' question starts.

At least we are all miserable together. I wonder do we ever reach a point of acceptance and less anxiety? I doubt it. I'm keen to look at adoption, but DH isn't and also he is 43, so the clock is most definitely ticking.

Spinduffy we're also looking at adoption, but it terrifies me that I'll be rubbish. It just sounds so tough . I'm worried that as a couple you'll need to be super strong too. I suppose we're a bit battered from the last few years.

Another one with no nephews and nieces here (and unlikely to ever have). We were my parents only hope at grandkids, they financed a lot of our ivf (no pressure!) and that's been a big fat waste of money. A recent conversation made me see they are still really upset about it. And I've also spent a lot of time with an elderly relative in hospital recently with plenty of time to wonder what it will be like for me as I die alone...my morbid conclusion was that with no one to bring your favourite foods to tempt you to eat or to find your hearing aid or fight your cause with the medical staff you will probably just slip away a lot sooner.... and will that such a bad thing? If I feel I've no reason to be here now I'll probably definitely feel that way then with no friends or family at all around any more. Is it wrong that that cheered me up?!

Bigger me too.

And Zippy - that thought did kind of give me a wry smile!

I was thinking about looking into volunteering for a charity visiting lonely elderly people, well once I'm not sure a miserable barren. twould be a sense of purpose and all that.. probably still die alone tho lol

@Zippybear I have the form still waiting to be filled in to be a befriender - you might have given me a nudge to get on and complete it

Couple of things - this was on FB for World Childless Week, I might bookmark it for the 'why don't you just adopt?' remarks

www.facebook.com/WorldChildlessWeek/posts/336335160127293

Latest in 'the universe has a fucking sick sense of humour'. So I was at my fertility consultant to have a copper coil fitted on Tuesday, end to the journey and all that. Sadly no chance of the 'omg we stopped trying and it happened' miracle - my broken womb can't menstruate without the coil, and my awful black periods are just too distressing. My cervix is normally fine with catheters and womb biopsies and colposcopies etc but apparently my body didn't want to cooperate, and decided it wasn't ready to close things off this way, and my cervix completely snapped shut 😓

Dr ended up having to get the BBQ tongs out and wrench my cervix apart to get the bastard in, total bloodbath. Anyway. So I work for a company that makes printed personalised photo products. I go into work afterwards, and we're doing a thing where everyone in our team has to make one of our products - names drawn out of a hat for each product. What's the ONE product that I didn't want to get, that was the ONE product that I DID get? Yep. Special edition 'baby' themed photo book.

I told my boss, who's a mate, and she swapped with me immediately thank fuck.

I thought about doing an infertile women's baby book,, with photos of sharps bins and embryos and injection bruises and pregnancy test photos and scan pictures of babies that didn't make it, but as we have to share with the rest of the team, thought better of it (and it was just the random sorting hat - someone without any kids who was child free by choice rather than involuntarily childless, would also want to swap, I'd have thought)

It's been the end for a while now, but now I'm officially on contraception it feels very very final.

Currently waiting for other ways to invoke sod's fucking law. Any ideas?! Fucksake.

Sorry to hear about the coil fitting banana fucking hell its never easy. And thank fuck for your understanding boss! We aren't on contraception but we have officially given up... after many many years of regular every other day sex (and congratulating ourselves for not having sex death!) we can no longer be bothered to dtd. Dh said it's just not sexy, the whole purpose to having sex is to procreate, it's like the unsexiest thing ever to know we are broken. I tried to point out that most people have sex whilst on contraception when the main aim is to definitely not get pregnant.. I suggested trying to imagine that we have natural in built contraception..not working so far. It's the first month in a very long time that I've been certain that there's no chance at all!!