Ivf anyone starting stimms next week?

[naty1]

Im starting stimns next week for icsi(dependent on blood test)?
Anyone at the same time want to join.

No bleeding at all, was really hoping for a bit of implantation bleeding for reassurance but nothing.
I think I might have to start working on plan C although I realise that I should test for a few more days to be sure.

I was doing dishes and randomly thought about you Suzy and had to log in to check for updates. I was nervously wanting good news and it so sad to hear you really sound like you are giving up hope. I am just hoping like crazy that like Nat's experience, it will just take a few more days before the HCG is high enough to show up. I just can't bear the thought of it failing for you after all you have been through.

If it's any reassurance, with my son, I got my last period on 25th July, and only got a faint line on 28th August. I didn't test earlier so hard to say if it would have shown up earlier, but it was only faint on 28th so I doubt it.

I guess if it has happened or not is all determined by now and it's just an agonizing few more days to get a definite answer. Reliving this with you is making me think I am crazy for starting this IVF cycle and what I am about to put myself through again.

Thanks for thinking if me :) we must all be a little crazy for going on this journey time after time.

Hubby and I are testing in the morning. I feel terrible for him but in my heart if hearts I know I'm not pregnant. He will be heart broken and that's the hardest thing for me. I will do it again if he wants to but if 2 perfect embryos haven't implanted I'm not sure it's worth it all again.

I just want a massive glass of wine

You certainly deserve a massive glass of wine... as in the whole bottle.

I have had 7 attempts at IVF and have only had 3 day 2 embryos put back... of which only one was good quality. But I have no idea how far that one good quality day 2 embryo made it inside me before it arrested. Now I am at a clinic that does day 5 transfer and think if my embryo makes it to day 5 in the lab, then for sure it's odds on favorite I will get pregnant. But you have two perfect looking embryos put back at day 5 so you know they have made it so much further than mine and all they have to do is implant, but it doesn't happen.

If you do decide to go again, perhaps ask for some answers with regard to your extremely heavy periods. I know that some clinics don't do transfers if lining is thicker than 14mm, and if your periods are so heavy that you can't leave the house, it sounds like somethings not right. Did they make any comments about your lining with your first IVF?

Anyway, that is just my useless objective opinion if you do decide to move on to plan C. Something to do research on if you find yourself wanting answers. Wish I had a better suggestion that would give you two pink lines this cycle, but I just don't. I guess it will take some time for you to heal from this and then see how you and hubby feel about moving forward.

I'm so sorry. I just find myself wanting to type something that will make the pain go away, because I know how horrible it is. But there just isn't anything.

Suzy you havent updated about todays test but surely you are only 13dpo at moment so in natural cycle period wouldnt even be late yet. Thats probably at least 15 dpo. When was the official test date?

I had bleeding this time 12dpo but not with DD.

It seems only 1/3 get implantation bleeding so it doesnt really mean anything either way.

It is all about luck. Which eggs grow that month.

Infertility is so frustrating.

I went to bed with AF pains and woke up with them so wasn't that surprised to get a bfn.

They didn't give me an otd so I'm just winging it. I will test again on Tuesday but it's not looking likely now :( I will keep with the progesterone till AF arrives even though it makes me feel sick oh the effing irony!

Last time I was dying to just try again but this time I don't feel like doing it and would rather adopt. Actually I shouldn't plan just yet its too early.

Thanks for your support, it's has helped so much x I will lick my wounds and then its your turn :)

Oh Suzy, it's so devastating to get so far and then this outcome.

Well this thread is turning into a pity party. Nat's IVF was cancelled, Suzy and her horrible negative and now my turn for a whinge.

Last IVF I was on 300 Puregon and 150 Menopur. I had 19 follicles at day 2 (fantastic), then 15 were growing at day 6 (yay) but 5 took the lead and I got 5 mature eggs. Dr suggested upping the Menopur so that we could get more growing. But I went for a day 6 scan today and it seems to have had the opposite effect! It seems that the strongest follicles have just hogged that extra FSH and now I have a few huge follicles at 19, 17 and 15, with not much else. So these follicles are mature and ready to trigger - but it's only day 6! I know that growing them hard and fast like this is not good for egg quality, so it seems pointless going ahead with only 3 follicles and on top of that, I know they won't be good quality.

My nurse will contact my IVF Dr today with the result and call me this afternoon with the next plan of action, but I am really feeling that the best thing is to cancel and am already in tears and grieving another failed IVF, so I hope she confirms this when she calls instead of telling me to keep injecting to see what happens and drag this torture out any longer.

Nat, you seem to be like me in that you start with a good number of follicles but only a few mature. Do they ever give you any suggestions on how to try to correct this? I am at my whitts end. Most women seem to get 15 - 20 eggs. I would be happy to get just 6-7 growing at the same rate. I am 37 so I feel like I am fast running out of time and can't afford for these stuff ups to keep happening.

Thank you both so much for your support. I was trying to hold back tears (am at work) when I started typing this. But just venting here has helped.

Suzy, I am sorry if this post is a bit of a thorn in your side. I wish you could knock some sense into me. Here I am with one perfect 3 year old son and I am just gut wrenched that this IVF is another failure and trying to vent to you who doesn't have any children and has moved to donor egg and now have had failure with that. It's him that makes this the most pain staking. I am dreading having to pick him up from child care after work and looking into his eyes, knowing I have failed him and he will grow up alone. Again, that's no help to you who will be lucky and happy just to have one, but that's just how I feel now and I need to let it out.

Have you heard from the Dr? I can't believe your back luck again. If you continue to get so few every time would it be worth trying with a low number of eggs?

Don't feel bad about your son being an only child, lots of people were only children and have grown up happy and healthy.

You are lucky to have a child already but I'm sure infertility will hit you as hard as us childless ones. On one hand I don't know what I'm missing out on and it's easier for me to to use donor eggs or adopt as I don't have a child already to consider. On the other hand I am jealous as hell :D

Let us know what up date from the clinic you got

Oh no shell!
Thats so similar to what happened to me.

However i got there slowly and they could have tried more intervention sooner. How annoying to have that at first scan.
(Now worrying my dose increase will result in same thing)

I suppose for me the solution is a dose increase to get more and mature ones but the worry of hyperstimulation is keeping it low.
I think im on 200 a day next time but think thats still quite low for my age.

Cant you up the dose of fsh rather than menopur? Maybe it doesnt agree with you? And fsh is better, for you?
It feels like the drs should know how to fix the issues and get 10-12 eggs from us. Its not like we are asking for 20.
10 could be 8 mature 4 fertilise and keep growing.

I think if i was getting i high fert rate i wouldnt be so worried about the numbers because if i had 8 mature then 6 ought to fertilise which would seem like a lot.(to me)

Makes me wonder if the stats are a bit squewed. If people give up after 3 goes then a lot of the stats are made up of new customers who are more likely to succeed as ivf could overcome their issues.
Maybe if people could keep going until success it would reflect more how many goes it takes for success.
And i think the clinics would learn from helping people achieve it.

It is not nice to be unable to choise how many kids to have. People can choose not to continue a pregnancy but we cant choose this.

I think the advent of the pill has influenced peoples thinking, we can wait to have kids, we should, we can simply stop taking it (or doing whatever) and we'll be pregnant immediately.

Suzy, I would be happy to soldier on even with a lower number of eggs. But it is too late for this cycle because they were already mature yesterday. I know that growing them hard and fast is bad for quality. So low numbers and bad quality this round. They said to keep going and come back Thursday for review - just to prolong the torture! But mentally I am already planning my next IVF.

Nat, I did some research and I completely agree with you on upping the FSH and not using Menopur. The first two IVF's I had dominant follicle. I did research and estrogen priming protocol (EPP) was supposed to be the solution. I tried for IVF 3 and they definitely grew at a more consistent rate, producing 5 eggs. Not many compared to other women, but amazing since I only started with 8 follicles.

Since then, I have started IVF with 15 - 19 follicles so I expected double the amount of eggs, but EPP hasn't worked well since and I am back to getting a few dominant follicles. The only difference is that the first EPP was on FSH alone and since then, I have had Menopur added.

So last night I did research on Menopur. Found one research article that actually shows it is superior at producing one dominant follicle. That's great if you are trying naturally and only want one egg, but I need the opposite effect! So after this IVF fails, I will see my Dr and ask if I can do just FSH next time.

Sorry for the long post, but just wanted to give you all the details Nat since I know you often disagree with your clinic giving you Menopur. At work now but I have the link to that article at home if you would like me to post it. Have you come to agreement with your clinic about what drugs you are doing next IVF?

Of course there are no guarantees, so it's going to be a long anxious wait while I wait to try again. I want to go straight to another IVF because I want the pain over, but I think I should allow my ovaries to recover. I seem to start with more follicles after a break. So I will have next cycle off, then start estrogen day 20 the following cycle and IVF the next cycle - starting late November. Already thinking of what excuses I can make up to get out of Christmas in case I can't deal with current pregnancies and babies in the family.

I think its not showing a post from shell.

My tube scan tomorrow. Hopefully its clear again and my right ovary has follicles on it.

Suzy- if this hasnt worked would you consider donor embryo? Im wondering if they are the extra ones from ivf so it is clear how many there are. Probably blasts.
Though i guess there would then be full siblings somewhere.
If you did try donor eggs again would there be a similar wait for a match?

Surely we are due for a success between us 3 by now?

I know what you mean Shellster, I have been invited to dinner tomorrow but she is 23 weeks gone. I was just honest, I don't have the emotional energy left to make an excuse for myself. If they don't understand then they can do one.

Good luck for tomorrow Naty :) Lets hope you get all the follicles you needs this time around. Your right one of us is surely due some luck.

Funny you should mention donor embryos I was thinking about it today. With the low fert rate with the donor and we know his sperm isn't really up to it, it makes perfect sense. And the blasts have to be top quality to make it to freezing. Not broached the subject with him yet so it might or might not be an option. Although money is a big issue as always :) Adoption is always at the back of my mind too.

I asked my clinic for a copy of the bill as I paid for things as they happened and I lost track. My treatment only cost us 3200! Thats for a donor egg, icsi and imsi! Would be at least 6k here. Although travel was an extra grand.

I think my icsi is £4300 plus £500 meds. But not imsi.

Though from your 2 experiences it doesnt sound that impressive.
Did you have that on uk round?

Yes i imagine it would be difficult for your DH to agree as its not meant to be age related for men and you get embryos.

Though its interesting all 3 of us struggling due to (well shell and me ) severe mfi.

I think dE would be strong as they would presumably be day 5 and you could find out the quality/grading rather than it just be what you get/ has grown that far.
I mean if i had had better embryos would i have selected the 2 i put back last time? Though it is currently luck as they dont know which will grow.

Scan went well.
No hydro???
Not sure where its gone. Will try gonal f as con didnt think there is any difference.(and we have some from where it was wrong last time.)
So a bit nervous about that.
Some articles said menopur gets better embies.
But others said not good with pcos.
I will be on 150 which i think is still low

I think you're making the right decision with the Gonal instead of Menopur Nat.
Here's my history with the different meds while doing the exact same EPP IVF protocol each time:
DAY 2 EGGS DRUG
8 5 FSH
15 6 FSH/Menopur
16 3 FSH/Menopur (Cancelled due to poor response)
19 5 FSH/Menopur

So you can see I had the majority of follicles grow evenly on FSH alone, and since adding Menopur, I have got much less eggs considering I started day 2 with lots more follicles. I researched this to see if my theory is correct and Menopur has been researched to have a different follicular response and produce dominant follicles. I am always amazed that you start with so many follicles and get so little mature eggs. I hope this is the difference for you. Definitely something I am going to try if I have to do IVF again... and will be interesting to watch your experience first. You haven't tried FSH alone before have you?

So I went for my day 9 scan. I had one way over mature one at 26mm. The other over mature one disappeared? There were four at 10-11mm. and then another 3-4 tiny ones that won't catch up. I guess it is good to have four at the same size. But 4 is such a low number and I wonder if it is worthwhile paying $5000 for 4 eggs and little chance of success. Then again, if I don't go ahead, I will have to wait for my body to recover, wait while I down reg and then finally start IVF again - all the while my eggs are continuing to age and at 37 I feel like I am running out of time. If another IVF never works, I will always be left wondering 'What if I went ahead that cycle with 4 eggs - would I have my baby now?' On the other hand, I got 5 out of 8 follicles to respond on FSH alone and now I know what supplements to take to start with 16-19 follicles so I think if I do IVF again in a few months, I can get 8-9 eggs on FSH alone. I think. Perhaps not.

Should I go ahead if these 4 continue to grow at an even pace? I just don't know.

Suzy, can't believe that the cost of flying abroad and IVF is cheaper than IVF in your country. Although still expensive. I found a clinic interstate that does IVF mostly under our Medicare system so I think I would only be out of pocket $1000 instead of the $5000 I am with current clinic. If I were at that clinic, I wouldn't mind so much going ahead with few eggs, as it's not such a big expense. They have a Dr I can see near me to begin the process so I'm going to inquire, once I make a decision about this IVF. Sorry, just talking about myself... mostly because not sure what is the right thing to say about your situation... just have to let you process and decide what is right for you.

My EPP IVF history didn't post how I typed it. Hope this makes more sense in case it is any reassurance to you Nat:
8 follicles day 2 - 5 eggs - FSH alone
15 follicles day 2 - 6 eggs - FSH/Menopur
16 follicles day 2 - 3 eggs - FSH/Menopur (cancelled due to poor response)
19 follicles day 2 - 5 eggs - FSH/Menopur

Yes it does look a bit like menopur can get more growing but also ripens them quicker leaving some behind.
Not sure if that would be good /bad for me.
Because menopur causes some larger ones that could be what prevents hyperstimulation.
But then maybe i could grow 10 follicles and get 10 eggs with gonal?

Why cant they do more research.

I totally agree with you that they should do more research!
If the clinics are doing IVF on thousands of women anyway, they should be keeping statistics on everything so you could clearly see how well women with PCOS respond to Menopur compared to Gonal F.

You seem to have the same problem as me with only producing a few mature follicles so I am very interested to see how you respond with this med change. I have a good feeling about it. Your last IVF did not work so clearly something had to chance for a better chance next time.

At first I was thinking of cancelling with only 4 follicles growing.
But now I am thinking of going ahead even with 4 measly eggs as I just want this pain over with and can't bear the thought of having to do this all again.
I have one last scan on Monday - day 13 - and will see what my Dr says.

Waiting to see how you get on at todays scan

Thanks so much Nat.

It's so nice to have people on here who are interested.

I don't tell anyone in RL as I don't know anyone going through IVF and they just wouldn't understand.

I get all the cliche answers 'when you relax, it will happen'.

So this is my one outlet and I am so grateful.

Todays scan showed follicles at: 20, 15, 14, 14, 12, 12, 7, two less than 7.
Rescanning me Wednesday.
Assume I will trigger Wed night for Friday EC.
Last time my two over mature eggs broke apart with the ICSI process.
Assuming that will happen again to the 20 mm follicle.
No way the 7 and two less than 7 will catch up.
That leaves 5 eggs... IF tomorrows scan reveals that the two 12's are still growing.
If not, then I think it's not worth the money for 3 eggs.
So tomorrow is D day.

I think 5 eggs is a good enough result :) Its about quality not quantity after all. I must be really hard to draw the line with the numbers so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the straggles at the back still growing.

Thanks Suzy. I'm just so on edge right now. So far in total I have had 13 mature eggs collected and not a hint of a BFP so I just don't feel confident another 5 will help. I think I will feel better the day after EC when they tell me a few have fertilized instead of a measly 1 out of 5 like I had last time.

How are you coping Suzy? Does hubby have any preferences on how to move forward from here?

The stress and worry never seem to end with ivf, you get past one hurdle then you worry about the next phase. Will the eggs fertilise, will they make it to day 3, day 5 it never ends!

I seriously considering embryo donor now. Can't spend thousand on an egg donor and it fail again

Hubby will go along with whatever but I haven't broached the subject yet. Waiting to get some prices in and not many clinics in the uk seem to offer it.

Sounds like you've got some real decisions ahead of you suzy.

After my IVF disasters, I have often wondered how I could help other couples struggling to put an end to their misery. I see women advertise for egg donors (we don't have an egg bank here), but I can't offer that as I seem to be struggling to produce any good eggs for myself. I didn't realize that embryo donations was an option, should I be so lucky to have any left over.

Do you think that is more likely to produce a pregnancy than egg donor? Or is it just that it is a cheaper option after the last round wiped you out financially? Excuse my ignorance on this topic. You are so strong to be able to make such decisions while I fruitlessly go though IVF 8 with my own eggs.

Today's scan showed 8 follicles that could potentially produce an egg. The largest was 24 (which will probably be over mature) and two 11's that might not be mature, with 5 follicles sized somewhere in between. EC is Friday.