Ivf anyone starting stimms next week?

[naty1]

Im starting stimns next week for icsi(dependent on blood test)?
Anyone at the same time want to join.

[Shellster52]

Oops, I mean to say that since my 3 cycle, I added Menopur - not Puregon. Hence I thought the Menopur could be the reason for the uneven follicle growth rate.

[Shellster52]

Yes, I too wish they knew how to get them growing at a more co-ordinated rate.
I have repeated my 3rd IVF cycle using estrogen priming and Puregon. That cycle, my day 6 scan showed my follicles at 10-12mm. Very similar size. Since then I added the Puregon so thought this could be the reason. So this cycle back to Puregon alone. But still dominant follicles!!!!

Today is day 8 and I went for a scan. I had one at 14, one at 11, one at 10 and 6 others less than 10mm. Apparently they don't measure anything under 10mm. So I have absolutely no idea if they are tiny and I will only produce 3 mature eggs, or if these 6 follicles less than 10mm are perhaps at 7-8mm and could catch up. So could be only 3 eggs or could be up to 9. A very big difference and I am anxious to know which one it is! Will probably cancel if only 3 eggs and fall into depression at another failure. Where as I will have hope for a BFP in a few weeks if it is going to be closer to 9. So you can imagine I just want an answer to know which way it is going to go.

Repeat scan on Monday when I will hopefully finally be out of my misery.

Have you had your scan yet? How did it go?

[naty1]

That must be so annoying esp the size gap. But if say you get to 24 mm the smaller could be 19, it would just be the much smaller ones, or if the size diif gets larger.
I wish they knew what causes them to grow at different rates
Good luck on next scan Fx

[Shellster52]

Please feel free to rant away!
I know how nice it is to get those things off your chest.
I can totally understand you being annoyed.
Would have been nice if Dsis at least consulted with you.
Especially if she has just been through IVF preg herself and knows how important it feels to be considered, she could afford you the same courtesy.

Yes, I went for my scan today.
I usually start with 16-20 follicles on day 2.
This time no day 2.
I had my first scan today which is day 6.
6 follicles on R, the largest being 7mm and the rest smaller.
2 follicles on L at 11mm and 9mm.
So that is REALLY REALLY disappointing.
I usually start with 16-20 and this time they only count 8 :(
Even when I start with 16, I get less than half mature so now that I only have 8, I will probably have hardly any mature follicles.

On my way home from scan, I tried to reassure myself and reason that because I normally have 16, she must have just counted the largest ones and there could be more that will be counted on the next scan.

But with my largest being 11mm on my left ovary, and 5 follicles are less than 7mm on my right ovary, that means all these 5 follicles are more than 5mm behind my largest 11mm follicle and might not catch up. So any extras that are even smaller and she didn't count today definitely won't catch up.

My next scan is 9.15am Friday (which is 10.15pm on Thursday your time).

[naty1]

Yes tsh is still stressful. Blood test on fri.
Scan today - 1 bean heart beating. The sac was a bit strange shape but nurse didnt seem concerned.
So no more scans till 12w.
Going to speak to gp about cons referral.
Really annoyed with mum/dsis etc we had planned hol with DMum and DDad usually early jun. But as this will be 4 wks before EDD i spoke to DM several times and said jun but maybe mid may so i wont be really pg.
Well i was away like 3 days this weekend and now DSis has booked flights over the whole of may to visit now i have no choice and will be very pg. (its mainly a but manipulative as only away a few days and contactable). But its months away no need to book so urgently andDM has engineered it to fit her schedule.
I just feel as the pg person i should at least have been told.
She told us you were going in June fr birthday and that in may there is a bank holiday and is more expensive
That is the reason we booked may and not June!
Anyway tickets are booked !
And paid
So we are going then!
Tickets booked

I just dont know how they end up messing me /family around so much. Due to her pg our last hols was affected as they were/werent/were going up until week before.
Im just tired of it.
Now it looks like ill be forced into same behaviour through no fault of my own.
DH said earlier than may would be better as ill be huge, swollen ankles etc but you just dont know i could be fine or DC could already be born- esp if i do too much walking on hol.

Rant over! As theres nothing i can do, just feel they are really selfish and dont consider others.

So Shell how are you getting on? Are you on stims now?

[Shellster52]

Well, that TSH is all very stressful. Even more stressful when as you say, you get a result that it is 2.5, but you don't know if it is on the way up or on the way down. I don't know any more about it other than what I had read in that book and posted above, so I won't say anymore about it as I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction with something so important.

Yes, my cycle is usually short at 25 or 26 days. However, I am taking progesterone since ovulation this cycle. One friend took Clomid the cycle before her 3rd IVF in a last ditch attempt for natural conception. It didn't work but her day 21 progesterone was really high and as a result, she had 25 eggs collected for her following IVF cycle instead of the 8 then 10 the first two cycles. Makes sense that with strong fertility hormones this cycle, my ovaries will be revved up and help produce a few more follicles for my next cycle. So perhaps the progesterone will delay my cycle by a day or 2.

Probably from your objective viewpoint, my IVF cycle does seem very close, but for me - every day is taking FOREVER. I put my DS in creche today while I went for my 'scratch' appointment, so since I am paying for a full day of creche anyway, I am leaving him there while I head off to the gym. Hoping it gets some extra oxygen around my body and helps my next IVF cycle. Okay, of to the gym...

[naty1]

So it really is very close to your next cycle (as they are usually short). I cant remember if you had the scratch previously?
Or was it on cycles you didnt have ET?

Its just a bit scary with the tsh. Nice guidelines are max 2.0. And reading that 2.5 and over increases MC rates by double.
I think the prob with tsh is it rises in pg despite increased doses as the drs cant see in advance where it will go. If i am 2.5 and its on the way down due to increased dose that would be fine. But if its rising due to the pg by the time i retest and get results it could be say 20!
(I asked q on a general health/pg pages and 1 person said theirs rose to 16.)
Nhs is quite useless. I thought ill see about the mw re being referred to a cons for thyroid but you dont see them until after booking in so after 12w (booking in clashed with my scan at ivf clinic). So... Helpfully you see a cons when there is no pt as the most important time is first 12 weeks.
Surely they should say contact a cons directly for 1st trimester or ivf clinic should monitor it.
In perspective my Dsis was being maintained at under 1. Before and after ivf. Which makes more sense as it seems my 2.0 in sept rose during ivf so even with a dose increase its only just in range :(

I guess the problem is if people mc its hard to prove that its thyroid related. Or lower iq in the baby. Nhs seem happy for people to be as close to highest as possible. When for patient around 1 is best. As its cheapest in terms of meds.

Re the bf. It can seem to be hormone related. Pcos, thyroid etc. but also things like tongue tie. dd used to feed constantly. So not sure which of my hormonal issues this was or if it was the lip tie (so probable posterior tongue tie) that was the issue. But then also reflux again maybe from tt.
DSis is now having issues bf DN despite great tsh (though was a large baby nearly 9lb! So could just be hungry)

I didnt have diagnosed hypo with DD ivf. It was say 2 but i had the symptoms so wonder how it was affected by that ivf, it may have been really high as never tested in pg. think i had slow rising hcg and DD looking back was a few days small at 6wk scan. I then felt weird after birth like wired hyperactive didnt sleep when she slept in the day. Lost all pg weight 3st+ in 2 weeks. And then at 8mths started gaining very quickly. I put this down to bf but seems now very extreme. Of course with baby that didnt sleep much. After birth people often get postpartum thyroiditis so hyper then hypo and i think that must be what happened. Interestingly i ended up on thyroxine almost exactly same age as DSis (though her tsh was higher). Apparently smoking 'helps' but when you stop it affects thyroid so maybe why people gain weight. I was thinking though how this affects people who quit when they find out theyre pg. (not that ive ever smoked, except in utero)

[Shellster52]

Back to your TSH - so it seems that if conception optimal upper limit is 2 and first trimester optimal upper limit is 2.99, then it perfectly normal for pregnancy to cause your levels to rise, so I personally wouldn't be self administering extra medication to try and keep it low, especially considering it is within the optimal range.

[Shellster52]

TSH optimal conception and pregnancy levels...

After I had low milk supply with DS, I read all about the possible causes so that I would not have the same issue with number 2.
I read that thyroid issues could hinder milk supply.
I then realised conception wasn't happening and started reading about infertility.
I read an excellent book called 'Infertility: The Hidden Causes' by Dr Sandra CABOT.
Her book talked about TSH and even though I don't think my low milk supply was due to TSH issues, I wrote down the info as I thought no harm to check my thyroid levels during pregnancy and make sure. Here is what the book says:

Conception:
Your TSH may be in the so called normal range, but it needs to be in the optimal range to optimise your fertility; that is 0.3 to 2 mIU/L.

First trimester:
Ideal TSH level is 0.24 – 2.99mIU/L

Second trimester:
Ideal TSH level is 0.46 – 2.95mIU/L

Mid third trimester:
Ideal TSH level is 0.43 – 2.78mIU/L

Hope this helps :)

Were you taking any medication for your thyroid while pregnant with DD?
Did you get any advice back then that you can follow to put your mind at ease?

Okay, now I hope you don't mind if I rant about myself to pass my waiting:
I am still SLOWLY counting down.
I am starting estrogen on day 20 which is this Friday but I still want to just get on with my first scan which feels like forever away!
I am a casual at work and have only been rostered on for 1-2 days each week for the last two weeks which I think has made time go even slower.
Having the scratch tomorrow so at least that feels like something is happening.

[naty1]

Nope no spotting.
My tsh from fri is 2.5 (up from 2.0 in early sept)
Apparently it should be max of 2.0 in pg but awkwardly i had increased dose from Mon, which can take 4 wks to fully take effect.
But it would also still be rising so im worried it should be increased again.
Gp seemed to think ok despite knowing its because of pg so who knows.
I called to register with mw as maybe they know what acceptable level is.
I think i should be under consultant care - though dont know when this would kick in. Prob after 12 wks which is silly as the thyroid levels in 1st trimester are the most important.

[Shellster52]

After all the effort it takes us couples going through IVF to even just get a BFP, I can imagine that the worry doesn't end.
And having just watched Inconceivable miscarry would not help.
But she had continual spotting. You are not bleeding at all are you?

Although I must say sitting on this side of the BFP fence and having attempted 8 cycles without a hint of a BFP, I would give anything to be where you are now.
Yes, here's hoping this new protocol is finally the answer.
Each day seems to be taking longer and longer as I count down!

I am glad to have met you and seen you have success with a day 3 transfer with your DD, and now day 3 success again.
I really want to have enough embryos that they let them grow to day 5 so that I can know they have made it all the way to blast and just have to implant.
Even if I get a day 5 transfer, I would still like two transferred.
If I have two transferred on day 5, I will feel like it might just work out.
But based on my history, that might not happen and I might have a day 3.
So seeing your success gives me some reassurance about a day 3 transfer if this happens.
But still hoping I have much success and grow lots of mature eggs and have a few going strong at day 3 so that they keep them growing to day 5.

[naty1]

Yes i feel a bit better about it.
Still not 100%. As i have to go through the uncertainty of the next 2 wks till scan, then x till out of 12 wks then birth. So still very scary esp after seeing that happen to inconceivable :(
It would have been nice to be pg at same time as DSis. And a bit strange as my DD is older (8m) and they will have a very small age gap and we will have a largish one.

Hopefully the fsh only is the key for you.
I think a large dose helps then grow together. Ie they all start going at same time.
When i was on 75/150 a lot start as i continued stimming.
I guess they werent as old as the others.
Reading other threads my low fert rate is quite unusual.

[Shellster52]

Perhaps, being on FSH alone instead of FSH/LH combination means that the follicles can be a bit smaller and still contain a mature egg... at least in your case.
Hopefully you never have to worry about it again anyway.

I am really feeling quite confident that I will have similar growth rate next cycle. This is based on...
I actually read a study that showed Menopur promotes dominant follicles.
I see examples on here of FSH alone producing more co-ordinated growth.
I had 5 of 8 produce an egg when I did FSH alone in Sep 13.

Wish it didn't take me a year (and 6 further IVF attempts!) to work out that having added the LH since that Sep 13 cycle could be the reason for the follicle size discrepancies since then!

Today is day 17.
Three more days and I start the estrogen on day 20.
At least that kinda feels like things are getting started fianlly.
Just want to get started already and be at my day 6-8 scan seeing my follicles at a nice even growth.

Do you feel a whole lot better about your Dsis now that you are pregnant?

[naty1]

I know it would be great to get 8 good size ones.
I think whoever said thry got like 11 22-17mm would have had a lot of good size ones.
I know i 'got' 13 but most at least half were from under 17mm follicles at trigger.
All we want is them to all grow at a similar rate.

Waiting for my scan nov 25 nervously.

I was thinking its like i had to wait for dsis to have the baby before i could get pg.

[Shellster52]

Sounds like this nurse had a better idea of what she was doing.

I noticed you commented on BatteryPoweredHens scan results on the other thread.
Isn't it interesting that she is doing Gonal F - no Menopur or LH - and has 8 follicles all between 9-12mm.
That is such co-ordinated follicle growth that us two don't usually get.
Really gives me confidence that I am going to do much better next cycle on FSH alone without the LH.
In Sep last year I used FSH alone and got 5 eggs after starting with only 8 follicles on day 2.
Since then I have added LH and despite starting with double the follicles on day 2 I have had much more scattered growth of follicles and less mature eggs.
Also your last IVF produced record eggs on FSH alone.
And now Batteries story is another testament to this.
Can't wait to get started and see, but having one extra story to back up my theory is really giving me extra confidence in my next cycle.

[naty1]

Got the blood. The nurse used a smaller needle with no vacuum on end, instead a syringe was on the end.
Person the other day was making my veins retract.
Maybe low bp stops the vacuum working.

[Shellster52]

Thank you, nice that you still want to see how I get on.
I think I will be happy to leave IVF and infertility threads after 3 years of this crap journey.
But if you are still happy to chat, I am happy to update.
If I ever get started - feels like it's taking forever!
I think your right that time goes quicker once the cycle starts - I suppose because you are having scans every few days so you are just counting down two days til the next scan update instead of counting down two weeks from start of cycle to EC.

The constant IVF bloods do scar the veins.
I take blood for my job and so I know what the IVF blood collectors are doing.
It irritates me they use a standard large needle for the bloods when they only need to collect one vial.
They should use a small one when we are having constant bloods.
Hope you have better success tomorrow.

My sis is visiting from interstate and I thought I would enjoy a few glasses of champagne with her after abstaining for so long.
Thought perhaps a drink and a laugh while catching up with her would be good for my mentality in the lead up to IVF.
Today, I have a bit of a cloudy head and am full of regret thinking if it's affecting my head, it is obviously affecting every cell in my body... including my IVF eggs!
Definitely not doing that again.

[naty1]

Yes im impatient to see how you get on with your change in meds.

Once you start the injections time flies till the EC.

Went for thyroid blood test and they couldnt get any blood :( so have to go back tomorrow.
Its cold here which cant help. Thinking i may try a bit of caffeine to liven my veins up, after they have been destroyed by lots of ivf blood tests.

[Shellster52]

Well I am starting on Gonal F only.
But I am adding LH when the first maturing follicles reach around 13mm.
My IVF Dr said this mimics what happens in a natural cycle so that reassured me this protocol will produce the best egg quality since this is what our body is naturally designed to do.
I have read of Dr Sher and others commenting about no LH for those with poor ovarian reserve.
i am a bit confused about whether I fall into this category or not.
I mean, I usually only start with -6 antral follilces on day 2 which seems like it would put me in the diminshed ovarian reserve category.
But my ovaries are not of the smaller diminished ovarian reserve size.
They are of a larger size as though they still contain more eggs but it just seems to be a lack of blood flow to my reproductive organs that causes fewer day 2 follicles and hence also., my lighter periods.
This is backed up by the fact that I can produce 15-19 follicles on a day 2 scan after taking Aspirin to get more blood flow to my ovaries.
And my FSH is not through the roof as it is in older women.
So I am unsure if LH is bad for me or not. My day 2 LH levels certainly seem low as they should be.
But it certainly makes sense for you to avoid it with your PCOS.
You did produce a record number of eggs, although there wasn't any obvious improvement in quality with just to okay to transfer at day 3.
Either way, you don't have to worry about all this anymore.
You have your BFP!
I gather that you had wanted two children to complete your family?
My turn for a BFP next please!
Just over two weeks until I start my meds.
But really my wait will just over 4 weeks as it is after egg collection that I really want to be at so that I can know I have viable embryos this time.

[naty1]

It iss strange as 2 bfp out of 5/6 embryos transferred. 2 blasts from 5/6 embryos. Or 2/2 (3) with the good quality embryos.
Interesting the cons . Said chance fail, not anyything about embryo quality.

You seem unlucky to end up With 1 embryo most times. Similar to me getting the 2. (Oh to get 4 eggs them all fertilise and go to blast).
1-2 top quality can be enough.
So youre trying gonal f only to start this time.
I guess i did better on it maybe due to pcos (eggs already exposed to lots of lh.) 2 a/bs vs 1b and 1bc vs . 1 a/b 1 b/c
I think dr sher advises limited lh for lower ovarian reserve too.

Its just a pity that the difference isnt say 2->10 good eggs

In jan i ate brazil nuts and some fresh pineapple. This time i didnt because i think the nuts can affect thyroid, which is the worry with self medicating.
I wonder if there are pcos women taking dhea, which doesnt seem a good idea.

[Shellster52]

You are lucky to have been able to achieve your desire of a family with two children from four IVF attempts.
I mean, obviously not lucky that you have had to go through and endure IVF but lucky you achieved it in just 4 attempts.
I have been through nine IVF attempts that haven't produced a hint of a BFP with disaster after disaster and only 2 of those 8 attempts making it to transfer.
So it doesn't feel so realistic for me.
Hopefully the next couple of weeks go fast so I can get started and see...

[naty1]

Hoping you are next. Then we can start a bfp thread.
im sure ill still be around.

[Shellster52]

Wow, that's amazing for you!
I was paranoid about miscarriage with DS and I conceived him naturally with no knowledge of our infertility issues that lie ahead, so I can only imagine the stress when it has been a hard road to conceive and you are worried about your thyroid levels being optimal also.
After 8 previous attempts at IVF, I can only dream of being in your situation right now, so you have to allow yourself a little excitement after all you've been through.
You wonder if it was the 8 or 10 cell - perhaps it's both!
I like this thread - not lots of people so my thread doesn't get ignored as 20 other people post after it.
I will miss chatting to you here!
Hopefully my turn is next and I won't need Mumsnet anymore after my next cycle either.

[naty1]

Tested this morning 14dpo -BFP (well more of a thin line really using bright orange wee, so hopefully thats ok.)
Fingers crossed no spotting yet. OTD isnt till wed so ill keep going.
Got a bit stressed as i know i need a thyroxine increased dose asap (to avoid miscarriage) but gp earliest blood test is wed 4pm then another x days they said 7-10 for results though i know i have got them back in 4 but that is easily next week -wk5 when baby needs more.
So i called clinic to see if they would test as they get back same day. But they said to just increase 25mg per day. Easy. Which i have started today.
Hopefully gp will suggest a test when i have telephone appt tomorrow.
Clinic also said test every 3 mths when they know its so important to baby/miscarriage risk in 1st trimester.
Lets just hope its not too much as i do have some thyroid function

I really had no different symptoms to Jan in this 2ww except
No spotting (touchwood)
Had enhanced sense of smell from 5dpo, which is too soon for anything (i could smell celery -which i dont like from 200m away.
DD said a few days ago 'whats in your tummy mummy' touching it.
Possible temperature. Maybe sore nipples but most things are the cyclogest.
Less upset stomach

So nothing conclusive as the spotting could be thyroid related. There is no way i would know on a natural try especially with irregular cycles

Its sad the stressing doesnt end just a different thing to worry about.
Wonder if it was the 8/10 cell

[Shellster52]

When I saw your other thread I panicked you were bleeding again.
But after I typed on this thread I read your post on your other thread and felt reassured for you that you were just asking about if you started bleeding and it hadn't actually happened.

So Sat was 12DPO when you started bleeding which I assume didn't happen so that's a good start. And no mention of bleeding when you posted Sunday either. It's Monday here but you are 11 hours behind. So when I see your next post and no sign of blood, surely that must be a great sign.

Totally agree about the waiting.
I think the 2ww is the longest wait of all... especially the last few days you are now enduring.