Archie Battersebee case-thread 2

[whynotwhatknot]

ongoing from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4573803-archie-battersbee-case?page=40

Almost certainly. They have been given a stay until, I think, midday on Wednesday to make an application to the ECHR. There were also indications this morning that they would be reapplying to Hayden, presumably for a stay on his judgment to consider the evidence about alleged breathing. Hollie's barrister mentioned the possibility of getting an independent medical opinion, presumably based on the monitor records primarily.

Yes, @Eeksteek , that all makes sense.

It's a horrible clash - a mother who cannot accept the sad reality and the need for consent - means that the outcome for a little boy is, to my mind, lacking in dignity.

You are right, there is no alternative.

This is so heartbreakingly sad. I can't help wonder what happened to lead him to do whatever he did. He's only 12 ffs. They are still so innocent at that age. I can't imagine the pain of all those involved including the hospital staff.

I stand corrected. However, my point about it being and overwhelmingly sensitive thread remains valid, I think.

To a great extent I agree about the following of the case. There is something distasteful about the real time, public following, when a child’s privacy is violated, and it’s why I’ve made only points about the process of medical consent. I don’t want to comment on Archie himself, to preserve his privacy. It’s all I can, and should, do for him. The process brings up crucial issues that a developed and humane society must address, though. And while I don’t like the idea of discussing them with relation to an actual child, if not now, then when? If Archie’s case doesn’t provoke this valid discussion of his and his mother’s exploitation by a problematic organisation, when will we discuss it and find ways, if there are any, to minimise it?

@Quia thank you.

Hanging on by a thread with the detail of all the medical info.

But i want to understand it properly.

I can see it in the majority of other posters too. 99.999% of the time these legal/clinical issues are something 'other people' understand and most of us bumble on by with our lives thankfully not needing to know. But when something like this happens you're not here to slag anyone off or just look at the pictures and judge and oooh and ahhh - you want to understand. That's what most of us are here for. With Hollie - There but for the grace of God go I.

After the fiasco of Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans why is there no reporting restrictions on cases like this? They shouldn't be able to go to the media with they're story. They're child is on they're deathbed and they're behaving like that. It's disgusting.

When the NHS have taken parents to court to be able to treat they're child to give life saving treatment. The child and family has remained anonymous. Like with the conjoined twins in 2000. There's also been case's when jahovah witness parents have refused life saving treatment and other cases to save a child's life.

@AlternativelyWired I read that he did that blackout / breath holding social media challenge but it went wrong. Heart breaking for his family that it was so avoidable.

I used the word corpse.

I was pretty angry when I wrote that, a close friend of mine is at home, feeling very ill because she needs what for her are fairly routine blood transfusions and there is a shortage of blood products.

Meanwhile, however sad it is, a dead person is getting blood products daily.

If that wouldn't make YOU feel angry, I dunno what to say, my friend has a reasonable chance of living another 40+ years, if she gets the treatment she needs.

Archie and other cases like him, fortunately there aren't many, has NO chance of living .. ever.

That's just his mother's account of it. Correct me if I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of this. E.g if it was for a social media challenge he would likely have been filming it ?
It could also very sadly have been suicide, which must be unbearable to thing about as his mother.

That's what the family say's thinks happend. But he would have had a video on his phone or gone live. There's been no mention of it though.

That is what his mother said may have happened. However, he did not have his phone with him, and doing those challenges requires that they be filmed and posted online. Also TikTok have strongly denied the suggestion that there was anything like that on their platform.

I've just said exactly the same.

It's as clear as day that this was a very sad suicide attempt. But if his mum needs to believe it was a tiktok prank gone wrong in order to absolve herself of guilt and live with it, then so be it. It's very obvious to everyone else what happened.

That is so unbearably sad. Poor lad.

I hadn't thought before about the fact that the case should have been held privately but I agree it should. I know there is a strong presumption of justice being able to be seen to be done, but family court cases are often in private. I see no public benefit in us knowing about the names and details of this tragic case.

I saw this on yahoo news and the comments underneath were around 50% saying they hoped Archie would prove them wrong - start breathing on his own or squeeze her hand agains as she’s claimed. I don’t know how people can be so medically illiterate. I understand his family’s desperate need to hope, but that general members of the public can be so fantastical about his prospects beggars belief and isn’t helping anyone.

Almost certainly. They have been given a stay until, I think, midday on Wednesday to make an application to the ECHR. There were also indications this morning that they would be reapplying to Hayden, presumably for a stay on his judgment to consider the evidence about alleged breathing. Hollie's barrister mentioned the possibility of getting an independent medical opinion, presumably based on the monitor records primarily.

I'm sure I remember CG parents getting an independent opinion based on a new treatment and they were told it wouldn't work for him?

Maybe the parents will accept it if they sort themselves an independent review?

I'm a parish minister - reformed tradition - and it is my belief, based on the medical evidence reported, that Archie is dead and has been so for some considerable time. I also believe that he is now at peace.

KingofLoss - oh absolutely, its understandable, and if that makes her feel even a scrap better about it then thats good for her.

They can ask the Supreme Court itself for permission to appeal to it I think. It's an extra step in the process, but there has to be a question of law of public importance to decide. I think the disputes here are on the facts, not the law.

Yes there's been no evidence of how he came to be unconscious with a ligature over his head.

But I do often ponder if this is what's driving her

@Albless what do you think, from a theological point of view, of the behaviour of the Christian organisation who is supporting Hollie?

I think they are wicked.

In the old fashioned sense of the word.

People can and do take photos of their stillborn babies and share them online.

@WiddlinDiddlin honestly i can't think what would make me feel anger towards/direct disgusting language at a twelve year old child on life support but an inadequate healthcare system isn't it.

Many years ago a colleague's 13 year old son hanged himself. No clear reason.

It got classified as accidental death, because there was no evidence he intended to kill himself, though he certainly hanged himself. Who knows what was going through his mind? A cry for help? A momentary impulse? At that age death is still quite abstract.

His mother never really recovered. 😓