OMFG is anyone watching Newsnight.

[carernotasaint]

Its about FGM. How can they fucking to this to girls and women. One girl was only three when it happened. MY GOD.

Well, we can't know that DrSeuss . I think it's far more helpful to just stick to the facts rather than speculating on things we can't ever know.

I doubt anyone who knows about it equates FGM with a harmless procedure. A lot of younger people are very aware of this issue, I've found, which is heartening.

agree with DrSeuss. It's mutilation not circumcision and should be called such.

True it is widely referred to as FGM which stands for female genital mutilation which is a better description of what is going on.

Also avoids the "what about the menz" responses that my dad started giving when FGM was in the paper and why weren't women going mad about that and giving it priority

This is what the FCO has to say about FGM:
www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/when-things-go-wrong/fgm/
And with my work hat on (sorry, I wouldn't normally do this, but it is such a terrible subject that I feel OK about giving you a link to our website), this is interesting as well.
www.actionaid.org/2012/02/freeing-women-female-genital-mutilation-fgm

It's quite common in much of Africa.
Wairis Dirie book is excellent, btw, it's about a lot more than FGM. What it means to come from those parts of the world, tribalism, nomadic lifestyles & the clash with modern world, too. Compliments Ayaan Hirsi Ali's books well.

I read several articles yesterday which were linked on facebook and I was horrified as well: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/annmarie-wilson/children-female-gential-mutilation_b_1686559.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false and the bbc articles: www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18900803 and www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18976217 absolutely dreadful.

amandine07 it is on iplayer here: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01l8nks/Newsnight_24_07_2012/

Thanks especially for the Newsnight link Mome. I'm not sure I dare look at other links on this subject but feel I might with the Newsnight one.

Agree too that there's very little comparison with male circumcision so different word more accurate sadly

DrSuess

Please read up on male circumcision as it ticks three of your five points.

Male circumcision obvs isn't great either IMHO - but still, seems a different order of magnitude to me, except where there are further complications/ it goes wrong

I knew very little about FGM until I started studying to apply for midwifery. It breaks my heart that so little is seemingly done in the UK to stop this attrocity once and for all.

However, in my latest midwifery journal, there is a really good article all about how more can be and needs to be done in order to out the groups who illegally practice this is the UK.

i know one girl with a court order to prevent her leaving the country so that her mum can't have her cut - the order was taken out when she was eight and her mum asked her doctor about the op. she's african and christian.

i know a few muslim somali girls who say its old fashioned and no-one at home wants them cut, and the odd one or two have said they went 'on holiday' and it was done.

it is done here, but i've never heard anyone talk about it.

The first article I linked, talked about the issues in the UK

Horrendous. I learned about this at university when studying postcolonial women's literature. I'll never forget a book written by an Egyptian woman who described brutally being cut as a young teenager after she starting mixing with boys. It is believed to suppress a woman's libido and thus she'll be a 'good girl' until she's married. It also takes any enjoyment or pleasure out of sex, and often makes it unbearably painful (as the woman quoted in the BBC article - sex was more painful than childbirth). That is intentional - women are not supposed to enjoy sex.

This is the best article I've read - the most frank I've seen in our country. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18900803

Our society needs to be more like France and stop this inhumane torture.

It IS different from male circumcision for the reasons I stated above. It's far, far more intrusive than male circumcision. It's totally different.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18900803

Yes I linked that one as well, but I think my original post is so full of links, it is probably lost in it. It is horrendous. It's totally different from male circumcision, absolutely awful thing to do to a woman.

Just heard about the Newsnight piece on Woman's Hour podcast. Practically weeping on the tube as the lady from Guys & St.Thomas's described the categories of FMG, and then the story of the two little girls stopped by French police from boarding a Eurostar to come here for the mutilation

This is a good video about women in Kenya trying to stop FGM: I will never be cut

We need to STOP our limpwristed multiculti attitude and grow a pair. Not only prosecute, but stop all benefits and deport all sons. I personally would like all fathers who have what was done to their daughter done to them - without anaesthetic. ALL medicos to be prosecuted, jailed and stripped of their licence to practise. And, preferably, have the procedure done to them too.

The French have a zero tolerance attitude. They INFORM the immigrant community that this is not acceptable from the get go and that they WILL go to jail if it happens. They EXAMINE all girls at risk routinely - without worrying about fekkin human rights or violations - and they PROSECUTE.

WHY are we suck fekkin milksops in this country? What about the human rights of these children? The left in this country, with their self-hating moral relativism, have a lot to answer for. The HYPOCRISY is sickening. Victoria Climbie's torturer got away with it because as soon as she got challenged, she implied racism - and everyone ran away. They ran away from a helpless tortured little girl. We need to stop this BS. People are human beings and answerable before they are ANYTHING else.

Most people equate circumcision with what is done to baby boys in some cultures. They associate the word with something that is usually perceived as fairly harmless. This is not harmless. If male circumcision involved chunks of the penis and testes being lopped off, without any pain relief, using a homemade knife, performed by an untrained person, it would have been made illegal a very long time ago.

 THIS.  I totally agree.

I agree with Abitwobblynow. Is it really too hard to say "This is unacceptable" and then go ahead with checks and prosecutions.

I think the authorities get away with not acting in the name of "cultural sensitivity" rather too often.

'checking' people's private parts is a bit of an issue, surely? a young teenage girl who has been cut isn't going to feel any better because strangers have insisted on looking between her legs, or sending her parents to prison.

female circumcision is different from FGM

female circumcision is the small cut that was referred to, it is the same as hoodectomy.

I agree with some of your points Abitwobbly (just not sure about checking girls' vulvas). It's one thing for the west to go to African countries and say "this is wrong", there are problems with that. But it should NOT be happening in Britain. If someone mutilated you in the course of a rape/murder/attack, it would be seen as the most horrific assault - just because it is part of a culture doesn't make it less brutal.

In some cultures they excise the clitoris though
From what i understand