OMFG is anyone watching Newsnight.

[carernotasaint]

Its about FGM. How can they fucking to this to girls and women. One girl was only three when it happened. MY GOD.

Sorry if ive come across as sensationalist. Im just so shocked.

yes, I read Waris Diries book several years ago. It's so bloody underground, they don't crack down on it .

I am absolutely horrified. Why the fuck has there been no prosecutions here.

Horrendous. Absolutely horrendous.

Read the piece on the BBC website earlier - I think we should do as they do in France. Compulsory health visitor/school nurse checks plus prosecutions and imprisonment. It's horrific.

They do that here as well.

Brilliant that Newsnight spent such a large part of their programme on it.

It is truly shocking and the more it comes into the public eye the better.

I thought the Somali girls came across as very strong and more power to them!

Pity they only really talked about Somalia as it happens in so many more countries!

what other countries does it happen in? I thought it only happened in Somalia

Happens in Sudan as well. Something like 95%, very "normal" and a ceremony happens afterwards (my friend inadvertantly ended up at one.)

Ethiopia, Egypt and lots of the west African countries practise it too.

Luckily there are some strong movements going on in some countries (that I have heard about) to ban it, it's a long arduous task tho....especially in the rural areas.

Senegal, Mali, Guinea (Conakry)....

The Masai in Kenya practise it too, and no doubt all the other similar tribes around - Samburu, Turkana, Pokot, etc. I think it is very hard to get any data from those places.

33 - yes. FGM = Female Genital Mutilation. It's horrendous to read up about it, but I think it needs more exposure (in order to stamp it out).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

Over 90% in Egypt I believe. My lovely Egyptian colleague got married about a month ago and I couldn't get out of my mind that her wedding night could be horrendous because of what was forced upon her. This beautiful, educated, clever girl - butchered in the name of I don't even know what you'd call it.

And lighthouse is right, it happens in the UK too - current estimates are 100s a year within the UK, and that doesn't include the girls sent to "visit relatives" who return with something missing.

OP don't worry, you are def not being sensationalist.

FGM needs to be discussed and levels of awareness increased- it is shocking that it still continues here in the UK, also with girls being sent abroad for it to be done.

It is a hugely taboo topic, there is almost a veil of silence around it...I read Waris Dirie's book several years ago, I was utterly shocked and it brought me to tears. I am so glad that it is getting more coverage.

Does anyone know where I can watch the Newsnight episode? I turned over to it right at the end, only had a clue that FGM was covered when I saw the credits.

It is awful. My sister is a GP & she worked with Somali women in East London to treat women / girls who had been mutilated. She said it was beyond shocking the awful mess that was made of these girls / women by their fellow women. Really dreadful botched homemade surgery.

We do have Child Protection guidelines at work but, in general, who are you going to prosecute? And how are you going to find out? I don't think this is a clear issue at all.

I understand that the normal age is about 11/ 12 for this to take place and that it would generally take place around August time (I have no idea where in my brain this information is being recalled from, so it may be dodgy!). So from a school's perspective, it would be very difficult to catch.

I was asked to carry out some research in this area because at the moment we've got basically no idea of numbers in this country. Erm, I didn't get very far before realising that the logistics of the research were going to be ridiculous. Anecdotally, I ran one Somali (but British born) female focus group and actually ended up having to explain to the teenagers what I was talking about. Either they were very good actresses, or it is fairly rare amongst Somali girls in this country (or ones in that part of London anyway).

There are two main sorts of FGM:

1. Clitoral
2. Labial

Obviously, Labial is more severe and has greater health implications for the girl in later life.

I have met a few women in other countries who have had this done. I have only chatted to well-educated women about this though, but you can actually get this done professionally now in hospitals. I understand this is a bit of a 'token effort' i.e. a tiny section of the clitoris is nicked so that you can say it has been done, but it hasn't really, if that makes sense?

I assume that most women in the world do not have it done professionally, but more as a dodgy job at home.

My Somali friend has never had it done and doesn't know anyone who has. I don't think you can whittle it gown to certain groups. I know it's got to be reported if you hear any rumours but it's all covered up so well.

I remember a poor girl I looked after when I was working as a midwife. She had recurrent clitoral abcesses, and also had to have an elective section, due to the appalling injuries and scarring.

CPS were on R4 last week. No prosecutions because they have had zero cases passed to them

lighthouse, wasn't suggesting it was all Somali women - just my sister happened to work with a group of Somali women in London (none of whom had been born in the UK) who had all had it done. Just her experience.

Could someone at Mumsnet HQ please clarify why this thread is listed as female circumcision? Male circumcision has been much discussed recently following the German court ruling. Ultimately, for males it involves the removal of a small piece of skin. The jury is still out on the problems this may cause.

Removing large parts of someone's genitals with a sharpened instrument under insanitary conditions is not circumcisiom, it is mutilation. Please call it by its correct name instead of making it sound other than it is.

Circumcision means "to cut around" which I'd say is a pretty accurate description of what they do.

I don't think it sounds different to what it is at all.

Most people equate circumcision with what is done to baby boys in some cultures. They associate the word with something that is usually perceived as fairly harmless. This is not harmless. If male circumcision involved chunks of the penis and testes being lopped off, without any pain relief, using a homemade knife, performed by an untrained person, it would have been made illegal a very long time ago.