OMFG is anyone watching Newsnight.

[carernotasaint]

Its about FGM. How can they fucking to this to girls and women. One girl was only three when it happened. MY GOD.

The troble is in some cultures the unmutilated women are considered unmariageable. That is the root of the problem that needs to be tackled.Otherwise you are solving one problem for tese women bu creating another (ossibly worse) one

So, you think it's worse than an unmutilated woman misses out on marrying some nasty, misogynist wanker who will only consider marrying a mutilated woman?

I would say that is a win-win situation for the unmutilated woman, wouldn't you?

Just read my post, apologies for the spelling errors. Too any emotions, too early in the morning!

I wasn't really taking about women in the UK, Gemma. I don't know what th cnsequences of being unmariiageable in a 3rd world contry would be? would you be shunned by the whole community? what would happen to you in your old age if you had no children to support you? I don't knowe answer

Wow, this thread has taken a surreal turn!

Anyway, carycach your point is interesting and it has to be the vital issue in stamping out FGM in the original countries from where it originates. I watched a documentary on Channel 4 a while back where a girl in an FGM-area in Kenya (I think) decided not to have it done. Her father was furious as he would get a new cow, or maybe cows, and bottles of beer (IIRC) as a dowry if he could hand over a mutilated daughter in marriage, but she stuck to her guns, went to live with her grandmother for a while and got involved in a group bringing in a new ceremony to celebrate becoming a woman to replace FGM which traditionally took that role.

IIRC, the group doing all this were also getting men opposed to FGM to talk to the village elders to get them out of the idea that FGM was essential for a woman. I kind of get the impression, there needs to be a two-pronged attack like this. Women are the main driving force in carrying out the procedure so they will have to be the ones to stop it, but to get them to do so, you need to get the men educated about its disadvantages as, ultimately, they have all the power in a patriarchal society. It is hard though as men regard it as a woman's thing and don't necessarily want to engage.

I read once that it was stamped out in Saudi Arabia (at least for the indigenous population - I don't know about immigrant populations) when a Western doctor persuaded the king of its catastrophic implications for women's health, fertility and their ability to carry and bear children. Ultimately if the king or other leader of society tells you not to do something, you stop doing it.

Oh, and Nailak, thanks for checking about the French system. I do think that checks in schools would be a bit weird - it is one thing having an injection with your peers queuing outside the door, but the sort of check we are talking about would be way too intimate, however brief, for such a system. I think any such checks would have to be part of a health visitor-type system like you mention for the French but carried on beyond 6 years old. That way, it could be a part of a general health check with parents present. Regular health checks for children would be no bad thing anyway, to pick up any other health issues they may be suffering.

Unfortunately, I suspect it is all pie in the sky as ultimately it would be shot down for costing the taxpayer too much.

ABit, I have reported your post of 00.24.

What vile racist views.

Oh, I'd be quite happy to have wobbly's white supremacist rantings retained. Telling a British-born person she's still an immigrant because she's black, comes from a failed culture, and that unless she shows 'gratitude' she should fuck off out of the country? Leave it up for all to see.

I also loved her complaint about everyone else being 'state-uneducated' in a sentence which contained two spelling errors.

they wont delete it anyway Mumsnet HQ likes bunfights.

Bunfights, yes. But tbh I think this is a personal racist attack.

'N Fit in or F off'?? Really, how is that acceptable?

'N would be breastfeeding her 9th child in Pakistan or wherever her country of origin is, instead of bitching about her cultures rights here. FACT'.

Lovely.

I've seen ABit on other threads on unrelated issues, and she has always seemed alright. However on this thread she is sounding positively deranged. Or drunk.

I do wonder if it was a stealth attempt to distract from the gravely serious matter being discussed on this thread! Lets not let it succeed if it was so...

they will send you a reply saying they understand your concerns but prefer to leave these comments so people can have a debate and correct the poster etc etc

anyway does anyone know someone effected (affected?) by this?

Hi nailak. I hope all is well.

I have been away on holiday (9 days) and really pleased to see that the topic got so much attention because it is so important.

I saw you were the last to comment on this thread. In answer to your question - I don't 'know' anyone affected by this but that doesn't mean I have not ever 'met' anyone affected by it (iyswim). I do know someone who campaigns about it, in other countries. My friend's organisation is 28toomany, her name is Ann-Marie Wilson.

28toomany.org/

As I said before I do feel education is key but I know that lots of things have been said since on the thread. It is so vital that we hear voices from all women about this issue and that all are engaged. It is unhelpful (IMHO) for anyone to feel there views are not being listened too. Although we can't agree with everyone, of course.

I still think the example of how the Chinese abolished foot binding within a very short time, after years of doing it, because of a simple campaign, was a moving example of how education can change things. I even wonder if it might be that in some countries things do move on but those who originated from those counties and now live in the west, and maybe were born in the west, might hang onto some things from the past. Not meaning anyone specific, just thinking really of examples of how the French-speakers in Quebec speak a kind of old fashioned French! The language has moved on but they speak like French people from the past. If you know what I mean!

Anyway, all best wishes to all those who are campaigning about this vital issue.

There are two e-petitions about stopping FGM which people may like to sign (and forward to others)...

This one (on the HM Gov e-petition website) is for UK nationals and residents:
** STOP Female Genital Mutilation (FGM / ?cutting?) in Britain
epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/35313

This one (amongst a number of others) is for everyone:
** UK Government: Enforce the UK law which forbids FGM (Female Genital so-called 'Cutting')
www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-government-enforce-the-uk-law-which-forbids-fgm-female-genital-so-called-cutting

Thanks HilaryBurrage.