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Original poster

Abortion statistics

251 replies

musica · 12/12/2003 09:20

Just read that one in five pregnancies nationally end in abortion, and in London it is one in THREE! Surely this is not good!

This is the relevant story

OP posts:
M2T · 12/12/2003 09:23

That is horrifying!!!

FairyMum · 12/12/2003 09:30

This is very sad wise word.Totally agree that the UK needs to sort our childcare/support and get the men involved/more rights! I can't believe the "should mothers work" debate is still going on this country today. It is just SOOO behind and I am sure that's to blame for the falling birth rates! The UK is just such a child-and-parents-unfriendly country.

secur · 12/12/2003 10:06

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secur · 12/12/2003 10:13

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marialuisa · 12/12/2003 10:20

I had DD in my fianl year of uni and remember other students (who didn't know me) thinking i must be some sort of religious nutcase. I think that the NUS have suggested that something like 1/5 female students gets pregnant at some point during her undergraduate course.

Whilst I support the right to abortion I do find the pro-choice movement's insistence that it's ok to use abortion as a method of contraception (see Janet Hadley, "Between Freedom and choice" and never, ever to judge a woman who has an abortion rather troubling.

salt · 12/12/2003 10:27

I think everybody should have the choice of abortion and, IMO, I think that anyone who has had an abortion would not think of it as a useful 'method of contraception'.

I don't think there's a problem with the rate of abortion in this country it shows that women feel that they have a choice and the ability to exercise that.

Better not to have a child than to have a child you don't really want.

outofpractice · 12/12/2003 10:27

I had my ds at what was regarded as a very "inconvenient" and unsuitable time in my career. Like you, I got tired of people thinking I was weird, and having people tell me to my face that I was "throwing my career in the dustbin". My GP kept on offering me an abortion when I first went to register for antenatal care, even though I had said I was happy about being pregnant although sad about my exp's reaction. This is why I am always very open about when I had ds and being a single parent, because actually there are so many "career women" around who have had babies at the "wrong" time, and women who get accidentally pregnant should not think that the only happy solution is a termination.

M2T · 12/12/2003 10:32

Oh I don't think this thread is going to stay so calm and polite.

Abortion is such a volatile subject. I personally do not believe in abortion due to "inconvenient timing in you career" or other such trivial reasons.

There are times when abortion really is the best solution for mother and child, BUT I cannot stomach abortions for convenience.
Truly awful stats.

marialuisa · 12/12/2003 10:36

apologies for the smiley.

FairyMum · 12/12/2003 10:43

I don't think anyone like these statistics. They are very sad. Far too high. I think the reasons behind these numbers are very complicated though. I don't think these are"convenience abortions". I think only a very small minority of women abortion ligh-heartedly, and I think in many cases previous abortions can come back and haunt a woman once she has babies later.....

What is really meant by "inconvenient in your career" though? In many cases it isn't just inconvenient, but impossible to keep the job once you have your baby. Personally, I lost my position when I returned from mat leave and also had to take a job I could combine with childcare. Nothing wrong with the latter, except those jobs don't grow on trees. Child care is expensive and logistically difficult in the UK because of long working hours and most of this fall on the mother. If you want to stay at home with your kids that's fine, but I totally understand why women feel they need to plan a pregnancy properly to avoid becoming SAHMs!

M2T · 12/12/2003 10:47

Fairymum - Hmmm.... just because you can't keep THAT particular job doesn't mean you can never work again!! I had to change my job as I lost mine BECAUSE I was pregnant! After ds was born I was forced to find a new job when he was 18wks old and the SMP stopped. It wasn't an ideal job, but it paid the bills. And that was what was important to me.

I'm talking about someone having an abortion as they think they might be passed over for promotion if they are pregnant. Not people who will find themselves jobless and homeless as a result.

M2T · 12/12/2003 10:49

I've had this argument with people a million times over.... there are also other options than abortion. Perhaps that needs to be clearer to people.

Original poster
musica · 12/12/2003 10:52

True that women have a choice. But they also have a choice to use contraception. Contraception is not infallible - but the rates of failure are not 32%.

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M2T · 12/12/2003 10:53

Very good point Musica!!

I wonder how many of these unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion are a result of failed contraception?? Not many I would think.

Jimjams · 12/12/2003 10:57

Something that worries me about the stats is that terminations are not good for a woman's health. Surely there should be more emphasis placed on educating people of that. Far healthier to use contraception as a first line of defence.

Original poster
musica · 12/12/2003 11:06

Exactly Jimjams!

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aloha · 12/12/2003 11:06

I have friends who had had terminations - you all probably have too. They all had very early terminationsI don't judge or condemn them. I believe in choice and I don't believe women should feel trapped into having babies they don't want. That's not good for women and it's certainly not good for babies. One of my friends got pregnant in a relationship that was ending. He'd been violent to her out of the blue and she really, really didn't want a baby - especially with him. Yes, she could probably have been even more careful with contraception but I think being pregnant, going through birth, seeing her career collapse, being tied to this awful man for the rest of her life and, if she gave the baby up for adoption, spending the rest of her life wondering if it was OK and being tormented by that, is a pretty hefty punishment IMO for a minor act of carelessness.
I'm not crazy about late abortions certainly, but I think removing women's reproductive rights is a dangerous path to go down.

Original poster
musica · 12/12/2003 11:10

aloha, I don't think women should lose the right to abortion, although personally I would never consider one. I just think it's a bit shocking there are SO many, when contraception is so readily available. I don't know whether it is lack of education or what, but I am sure that it would be much better for all (mother and baby) if as Jimjams says, 'contraception is the first line of defence'.

I definitely don't think we should go down the road of removing rights - more removing the need to exercise some of them!

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M2T · 12/12/2003 11:10

I have a friend who has had 2 abortions. She didn't tell me about them, she told she had had miscarriages and made me feel incredibly guilty for having my healthy son. She used to vome around and cry when she held him!!

I have no sympathy for her. She has a house, a partner of 8 yrs a very good job that would support her having a child..... and she wants children!!!! She just freaked out and "got rid of them". Now she is totally tormented. I refuse to support her decision. She now knows that I know they were abortions and we just never approach the subject. My feelings are too strong she feels so guilty for it. Totally unnecessary deaths IMO.

Jenie · 12/12/2003 11:12

I did think about having an abortion when I found out that I was pg with dd, failed contraception, but couldn't face it. Yes it was a bad time for me to have a baby, but then again don't most people think "when we have more money" or "when we have a bigger house" I figured that those whens could be a long way off and here I was with the opportunity to start my family, not planned but still wanted at some point so why not now, the rest could be worked on with time.

The best decision I've ever made, even if it was the toughest. My Gp was great about it, considering I was already nearly 3 months gone she didn't put any pressure on me to have an abortion and said that I could call her at anytime to discuss the pg. I was only 18 so fell into the teen end of the spectrum but I had my family to support me and my dp to just be there what ever.

Does anyone else think that the rate of abortion might be lower if families lived closer together so that women had the support of extended family as opposed to being very much on their own with a baby?

Jimjams · 12/12/2003 11:16

Oh no I certainly don't want right to abortions to be removed (I know someone- who got pregnant before abortions were leagalised- and she had a back street job done- horrific). Of course I have friend's who have had abortions (all early)- and I don't judge them at all. All I mean is - if people were more aware that it isn't always an easy get out- that there can be consequences - then they may be more careful about contraception. One friend that had an abortion was emotionally very affected by it- even now 10 years later- it was not a quick fix for her. I haven't et anyone who has had physical problems because of termination- but it does happen. Just not something that should be seen as "oh if I get pregnant I can always have an abortion".

tabitha · 12/12/2003 11:18

I agree that the statistics are sad but I don't think any of us have the right to judge another woman's decision to have an abortion without 'being in her shoes'. M2T just because you had your ds and had to find another job afterwards, doesn't mean that another woman in the situation would be wrong not to choose to do this. Imo very few women take the decision to have an abortion lightly and I, personally, think it's much better to have an early abortion than to bring an unwanted child in to the world.

Jimjams · 12/12/2003 11:19

There's been quite a bit in the press recently about "a woman should be able to have an abortion on demand at whatever stage" etc etc Whilst I agree that a woman should be able to have an early termination on demand- I do think that with that right there comes a certain responsibility. Sure people are always going to cock up, we all do somewhere along the line, but I think women (and men too) have a responsibility to understand what it is that they are doing.

Twinkie · 12/12/2003 11:25

Message withdrawn

M2T · 12/12/2003 11:32

Tabitha - My point was that I think the life of your growing child is far more important than perhaps taking a job you don't like for a few months and I think it IS wrong to abort your child coz you may have to change your job!!! I'm going to disagree with you.

My feelings on abortion are very strong and perhaps its best if I bow out before I get angry at all the excuses that may be brought to the fore.

I am not totally against abortion..... just some of the trivial reasons people have him I find disgusting, selfish and upsetting.