My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

Another social worker here. Some gentle advice OP, I don’t think it’s wise to be sending reports to other posters - also their input really isn’t going to be that useful as they are unconnected to the case and won’t have full context - not to mention the sharing of personal information, redacted or not. If you have doubts as to the practice of the social worker involved it would be more beneficial to speak with the service manager for their locality team, or the independent reviewing officer who has chaired the child protection conferences and perhaps a meeting can be arranged. It’s important to say that social workers do not work in a vacuum. We all have colleagues, managers, senior managers and independent reviewing officers giving guidance and input into decision making and actions taken - and a over all of us is the judiciary. I wish you well - it is an incredibly sad situation.

It’s important to say that social workers do not work in a vacuum. We all have colleagues, managers, senior managers and independent reviewing officers giving guidance and input into decision making and actions taken - and a over all of us is the judiciary.

And yet, mistakes do happen.

OP, I think you’ve come to a hard but wise choice.

@mamsiz I think that very often if there are mistakes it is going to be the management of that particular team which is at fault, but in any event I think that the OP was more concerned about making the right decisions for her nephews going forward - your post is more about defending the social workers in relation to the past - what would your advice be about helping her nephews going forward?

If that particular LA are struggling, what does that mean for the nephews future if they go into care in that LA?

I'm quite confused about the preparation for court as my understanding of the procedure is the opposite of what is happening here.

The courts generally will want to see what is being suggested or planned if the children are removed and will want to know if any family members have been assessed.

Often these assessments are done way before you get to this stage. It's not about anticipating the outcome but planning effectively for other eventualities. So you'd work towards keeping the family together whilst considering what the other options are if that can't happen.
It's good that you have reached out for support here but I'd repeat the caution about giving too much detail or sending anything to other posters.
I would also urge you to be selective about what you listen to here as there has been a huge amount of inaccurate, misguided and downright dangerous advice given here.

@heysugar

I'm quite confused about the preparation for court as my understanding of the procedure is the opposite of what is happening here.

The courts generally will want to see what is being suggested or planned if the children are removed and will want to know if any family members have been assessed.

Often these assessments are done way before you get to this stage. It's not about anticipating the outcome but planning effectively for other eventualities. So you'd work towards keeping the family together whilst considering what the other options are if that can't happen.
It's good that you have reached out for support here but I'd repeat the caution about giving too much detail or sending anything to other posters.
I would also urge you to be selective about what you listen to here as there has been a huge amount of inaccurate, misguided and downright dangerous advice given here.

I think it sounds like the social workers have already decided that the OP and her mother are unsuitable already.

I know when a child close to us was removed we were ruled out without any discussion because they had decided they wouldn’t be placed with anyone with children

@ihavebeenthroughthis - with respect, when you have a complaint or concern, who do you take it to first? I usually take it to those I feel have made the mistake or caused the issue. Then, if I feel my complaint isn’t being dealt with appropriately/ I take it higher. The OP can do this. With regards to making things better for her nephews, the same can be said - communicating and working together with their allocated social worker and requesting involvement in all meetings is a real start - if this isn’t already taking place.

@Mymycherrypie Absolutely - there is no denying that mistakes happen. My point was not that they don’t - it was that social workers do not have individual responsibility. We work as part of a team, or at least that has been my experience and my own practice. I can only speak for my own practice.

@mamsiz thank you for the "with respect" that makes me feel respected, for sure. I think you missed the point of what I was saying - when you make a complaint you normally follow the official complaints channel - but the point is that if the management which you referred to is at fault it is hard to resolve the complaint, in reality. You seem to be more concerned with defending mistakes by saying it is a team effort, than giving advice - is that fair?

@mamasiz sorry - I meant - is that a fair assessment, not are you being fair. I think social work is really important and the work done by social workers is difficult and very admirable, but it also appears that there are many problems within the service.

@ihavebeenthroughthis I’m sorry - I feel like I have offended you and that was not my intention. It’s hard as there is no ‘tone’ online, and I was trying to be respectful of your views. I’m not really trying to defend anyone - only saying what I know personally about raising issues with practice. As for advice, I think I might have said above that working with the allocated social worker, communicating with them and asking to attend meetings and court hearings in relation to decision making would be the way to go. I no longer work in child protection as I was unhappy with decision making and felt that children were being put at risk in certain situations I had oversight of. What I do know is that - as in any profession - there are some fantastic social workers out there and some who are creating more problems than they solve.

Actually a lot of people who have been dismissed and invalidated feel they have no where else to turn but their peers for advice on how to make a complaint. Not many people know they can go to PALS for NHS complaints for example and will ask around before coming to that avenue. Often when your concerns aren’t listened to, a complainant may feel they need advice on how best to approach the person with the issue again as they’d been dismissed several other times, as it sounds like has happened here.

It is an anonymous forum after all and OP may feel she has no where else to turn. In amongst the noise there are often gems of advice and OP sounds like she can tell them apart so let’s give her some credit before telling her off (twice) about just so being desperate to help that she let someone look over a report.

@mamsiz no, no, not to worry, re offence. I agree with your last post, but I do feel that too many children are being failed, and that this does come down to fundamentals of social work practice, management and culture as well as funding. Anyway, not really the point of the thread. Sorry OP

@Mymycherrypie Apologies - I was trying to be helpful - I’m not in the habit of ‘telling off’ grown adults but I felt I had some helpful advice. So as to not cause further offence I will now leave the thread. All the best, OP.

@Mymycherrypie I really didn't read it as telling off, more words of caution.
It isn't the OPs information to share and she doesn't know who she is talking to on here. Even redacted information could get into the wrong hands.

To clarify the report was not shared. I realised this was not the best idea when I calmed myself down from being terrified about the future of my nephews.

@Namechange543

To clarify the report was not shared. I realised this was not the best idea when I calmed myself down from being terrified about the future of my nephews.

Yes it was, you sent it to me on a PM. I thought this was a bad idea and explained to you that I couldn't see it. When I went back into the PM later I could see it. However I didn't read it.

I think you are making a wise decision, sad though it is. From what you describe I would think an ideal outcome would be if all three are separately placed close enough for you to have regular contact on an individual basis. By not taking one of them on yourself, you can potentially work up to having them overnight on an individual basis if and when it is appropriate. Although it is wonderful that your own children would be willing to facilitate you taking their cousin(s) in, they will also be underestimating the potential disruption to them that this could cause and their education and futures can't be sacrificed in favour of an uncertain outcome for an already damaged child.

I have no idea how likely it is that the right supported placements can be made for these children but echo others hope that this can happen. That you have a positive relationship with them already is a great start and it would make sense for that to be utilised for some continuity into their futures.

@heysugar in relation to thinking about identifying/sharing info which could get into the wrong hands, there were over 78000 looked after children in 2019, and the circumstances described here would probably apply to the vast majority, unfortunately.

OP you can get the PM you sent to the pp above with the information removed from their inbox by MN

@phoenixearthworm YOU messaged me after I posted in thread about sharing the report. You did not say you thought this was a bad idea in your message. You replied saying you couldn’t see it. Not that you didn’t think you should or didn’t want to that I hadn’t sent it correctly. I sent a link to it, I then immediately deleted it as I realised this was a bad idea. You did not see the report. I am happy to post the message conversation we had?

@ihavebeenthroughthis Thank you, however I never sent them the report. I sent a link to the report which was deleted. The report was not shared in the sense that no one has seen it.

[quote Namechange543]@phoenixearthworm YOU messaged me after I posted in thread about sharing the report. You did not say you thought this was a bad idea in your message. You replied saying you couldn’t see it. Not that you didn’t think you should or didn’t want to that I hadn’t sent it correctly. I sent a link to it, I then immediately deleted it as I realised this was a bad idea. You did not see the report. I am happy to post the message conversation we had?[/quote]
You asked in thread if I was a social worker, I said no via pm and that I was working in safe guarding, you then sent me the report which I couldn't read, then you sent me a link to it which deleted in an hour and I could see that but didn't read it.

[quote Namechange543]@phoenixearthworm YOU messaged me after I posted in thread about sharing the report. You did not say you thought this was a bad idea in your message. You replied saying you couldn’t see it. Not that you didn’t think you should or didn’t want to that I hadn’t sent it correctly. I sent a link to it, I then immediately deleted it as I realised this was a bad idea. You did not see the report. I am happy to post the message conversation we had?[/quote]
You asked in thread if I was a social worker, I said no via pm and that I was working in safe guarding, you then sent me the report which I couldn't read, then you sent me a link to it which deleted in an hour and I could see that but didn't read it.

I said in thread it wasn't a good idea, you and others will be able to see that.

So would I. The OP tried to send me the report but thankfully failed, it's not appropriate. We can see from the OP's posts on here that the children need support and urgently. OP, it's not relevant if the issue should have been escalated in the past as only people who were there will know,its about what the children need now

OP here is where I said it was inappropriate - yesterday afternoon. Look up thread.

@ihavebeenthroughthis

OP you can get the PM you sent to the pp above with the information removed from their inbox by MN

The OP didn't send it in a PM she sent me a link to it which I didn't read.