My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

Stop @phoenixearthworm

It really reads like you’re throwing the OP under a bus and is totally derailing a thread that may be of use to others. I know that’s not your intention but really.

@AdultFishcakes

Stop *@phoenixearthworm*

It really reads like you’re throwing the OP under a bus and is totally derailing a thread that may be of use to others. I know that’s not your intention but really.

Just addressing what the OP said that I PM'd her as if I had asked for the report - I didn't and wouldn't. End of matter now.

@phoenixearthworm You said in thread it wasn’t appropriate yes, AFTER you had already messaged me.

If you didn’t think it was appropriate WHY did you PM me to tell me you worked in safeguarding? Why did that information need to be sent to me personally and not as a reply in thread? Particularly as I had said in thread about PMing you the report. The fact you then messaged me to tell me to tell me your job role was understandably seen as an invitation to send you the report I had discussed.

When I said I was sending the report WHY didn’t you reply to my PM saying you didn’t think it was appropriate? Why wasn’t that in your first PM to me? In fact you simply said you couldn’t see it, not that you didn’t want me to try again etc. Again seen as an invitation to send again as you had not at this point said anything regarding it being inappropriate.

I then sent a link which I told you would auto delete in 1 hour. However I in fact manually deleted it straight after.

Like I said I am more than happy to post the messages if you like which will show the times that you sent them and posted in the thread but to be honest this is pointless. The fact remains the report was not shared. Yes I had an error of judgment and quickly realised that, I apologise that while dealing with this absolute shit storm I wasn’t thinking clearly and reached out to someone I thought could be helpful. I hold my hands up now stop pretending you were sent it against your will.

Let's just park this particular issue now- it's not really relevant.

I just didn’t want this thread to turn in to a pile on for OP for sharing the info when she is clearly desperate now because of previous mishandling. And see what’s happened in the hours since I posted that.

And then everyone wonders why people are mistrustful of those working in safeguarding...

Namechange543 how are you feeling?

I just hope the boys get all the help they can.

in your interactions with the boys, this video may help to explain some of what is going on inside them.

Window of Tolerance Animation by Beacon House

And this video offers some hope for the future.

Rewiring the Anxious Brain - Neuroplasticity and the Anxiety Cycle(Anxiety Skills #21)

But obviously this is the person talking to adults and children will need help, therapeutic help, to enable them to work through the anxiety etc.

@Ted27 - thank you, I do have to remind myself when im down in the dumps, to think look how far you have come, I dont let my past define who i am, but sometimes it helps me to understand more about myself and why i act the way i do.
@dottiedodah - Thanks :) i think you either want to be the complete opposite of your parents, or you end up growing up to be like them, not wanting to be like my mother, motivates me to try and be the best mother i can be, nobody is perfect though :)
Bumpsadaisie - thank you, now that my children are a little older now, i want to follow my dream of working with vulnerable people/children, but i am unsure of what direction to follow, i think my experiences can be put to some good use and hopefully i will be able to help even one person. when im alot older and my children have flown the nest, i want to Foster myself :)
@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong - thank you, its hard to explain sometimes that i genuinely see them as my parents, but i think it helped that when we were placed into Foster care, our birth mother never booked to come and see us at a contact centre, at the time it wasnt nice to experience, but i think it helped us long term. I will ask my Foster dad to walk me down the aisle when the time comes :
@Namechange543 sorry to derail your thread x

Hearing was this afternoon and the children are still with her. Quite surprised as I thought there was no chance they wouldn’t remove them.

It’s now going to a core team and they will be doing ‘concurrent planning’ which they tell me means looking for alternative placements for them whilst my sister works to the action plan they have set.

If she meets the action plan they will continue observing and supporting, if she doesn’t they will already have options lined up ready to remove them. The social worker said the plan would be to separate the eldest one and place the younger two together providing no further concerns raised about their ability to be together. They would be looking at long term foster placements in the local area to allow them to maintain family ties although said this was dependant on what was available.

Quite confused by it all as don’t understand the process but it seems there are quite a few steps to go through before they will remove them. All I can do now is hope this is her wake up call. Not sure how to feel about it really.

Oh, I really feel for you OP - I totally understand why you don't know how to feel about it, you'd come to terms with the idea that removal was the best thing and now it's all been thrown into question again. I too really hope your sister really uses this opportunity to turn things around, but that it can be managed in a way that doesn't increase the trauma to the children if not.

Oh, that is surprising.

But great that there is a map of what the future will look like, and the fact that the social worker told you about the plans means you are trusted and will be kept informed.

Perhaps the core team are more specialised in high risk families and therefore there will be more involvement on a daily basis from those who have the right training to be able to adequately support your sister, but also on their radar as her last chance.

Must have been a really difficult day

OP how very sad. I fear this is the wrong choice but maybe they saw something in your sister and want to give her a chance. I really wonder how many of them would be willing to face a risky situation.

Sorry it was a hard day OP.
The law is very clear that families should be kept together if possible so the threshold for removing dc is very high.
It sounds as though there is going to be a clear plan moving forward so hopefully things will get better.

I would imagine that there will be an enhanced sure start type programme where she will have to attend a parenting course & she will be closely watched over a period of time to decide if given the right help she can turn things around. Hopefully this will have been a wake up call & she will stick to the programme & also the boys will get the help they need.

Sorry you have had such a hard day .TBH maybe the Social Services need some time to find suitable placements for the children .They may want to make sure a Foster parent can cope ,and dont want the placement to break down I guess.I feel for you ,and have thought about you for the last few days .It must be so hard for you as an onlooker and you feel powerless .However you sound such a kind person ,and they are lucky to have you in their life .One can only hope and pray that DS wakes up before she loses them for good .She sounds rather weak and easily led .Lets hope the extra help will benefit her and give her one last chance .Hugs to you xx

I just wanted to add the final decision about removing dc from the family home isn't social services to make, it is perfectly possible as a social worker to ask a court for an order to remove them and be turned down.
Then you have to come up with another plan.

It might have been that the court wanted to do everything possible to keep them together or might be that the SWs had not done their job properly and produced the right documentation, as I have read cases before when that was the case.

OP I think that doing what you can to get your sister to get help would help the dc whether or not they stayed with her. Also telling her and getting her to understand the sort of help available for her dc, for their past traumas, and for her. By working out where she is coming from, so to speak, where her problems lie, will help you know how to (or help your mother to) communicate with her effectively to get changes made.

PPs said that it isn't possible to say why some people have more problems than others, upthread, but actually there are usually reasons, experiences they had which a sibling didn't have. Not excuses, but reasons. And things can be changed. Also there was a poster upthread who said your sister could be helped by doing the freedom programme, getting help with their past, their parenting and them learning about child development and so on, and they were mocked but actually that is exactly what should be happening in every situation, and it does happen in some situations, though sometimes too late in relation to the children.

And for the nephews - last but not least - another poster and I posted links by Beacon House about the sort of problems your nephews will have and what help they can get - is this something you can be pushing for?

Someone said that there was now a plan with the SWs and that that was good, but looking at what has happened in the past, I personally wouldn't rely on that at all, I wouldn't feel I could rely on their competence in this situation, and in your shoes I would try to get changes made myself, get some legal advice to make sure your input is taken into consideration as far as possible and get some ideas from the Family Rights Group about what you could do. I would cooperate with and try to work with the SWs, but I wouldn't rely on them to help your nephews.

Just came on to see how things were for you OP and saw you’re update.

So sad for those poor boys :(

Most mums are terrified of their child even having a visible bruise in case it gets SS involved and they lose their kids but your sister is allowed to keep her kids even after encouraging them to Orr each other etc :(

Fight not Orr*

A five bedroom house could work with some sacrifices, I've known people with more children in smaller properties on a permenant basis. You may be surprised at how much you can achieve with your space if you are motivated, hit IKEA + section rooms and explain to your DC the difference they can make to these children's lives. My nieces were divided between their Dad's (five girls - three Father's). The oldest child was estranged from her father so I have started fostering her, she would have ended up in care if not. I have a 1.5 bedroom flat, a 15 yo and a 9yo it's tiny BUT we make it work. I hope you find a way for these children to remain together. My nieces miss their siblings everyday even though they have contact.

This sounds utterly awful - for the children, for you and your family - just everyone involved. From what you've said those kids have been severely let down by the professionals involved (as well as their parents of course) and I hope that the upcoming decision will be the beginning of their recovery - wherever they eventually end up.

My (completely unqualified) thoughts are that the youngest could stay within the family, ideally with you considering your circumstances (available space, older children, supportive partner), I really don't think that your mum is an option considering her ongoing relationship with and proximity to your sister/her daughter and only having one bedroom - but that it sadly sounds like the other 2 need to be separated and receive individual attention to address their needs and mitigate further violence between them.

Sorry, didn't read your most recent update. Do you think the concurrent planning is basically them saying, "we need some time to come up with placements - so your sister needs to follow the plan until we have done"? I.e. they know the kids need removing but it's not as easy as just taking them there and then.

I know this is an old post but I’m the OP under a new username and wanted to update those who were concerned and supported me with this that just over a month ago the children were removed from my sisters care. The delays mean they have sadly suffered more abuse and trauma as a result and they all have really complex needs as a result. We were approved as foster carers under regulation 24 and have the youngest with us. It’s been challenging but it’s working. The main thing is all the children are finally safe.

I’m new to the thread but what an awful situation. So happy you’ve been able to step in and offer the youngest something resembling a more normal life. Poor kids. What’s happened to the older two?

That's good news OP.

Are you still in contact with the other two?