My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

Handsoffisback I agree with you! The trouble is here ,that many well meaning people who have little or no knowledge of child abuse/the care system ,think everything can be cured through "lots of love and cuddles preferably from a family member" .When they have been through the most terrible trauma! None of us here can imagine what a terrible situation OP is in .Her DS presumably has some MH issues ,but these boys have been let down badly by their parents and Social Services as well .(Why on earth were they returned to DS after the child had been hospitalised FFS!)Saying OP and her DM (who is in her 60s!) could take one or two each, is idiotic and dangerous for OP and her family .Thankfully I have never had dealings with anything like this (and neither have any of these well meaning posters either by the seems of it!)but even I can see that severely abused children need expert care away from DS and to recover properly under experienced foster carers /care home staff!

@Handsoffisback

Some people on here amaze me with their naivety. One of these children has HOSPITALISED another and SEXUALLY ABUSED children! Is that clear enough? If the perpetrator was a man would you suggest moving the 5 year old or 9 year old in with him and just ‘see how it goes’ ? FFS a 10 year old angry and violent boy can do serious harm. Again I will mention the extreme violence in one of James Bulgers killers houses between brothers. They need to be separated for the safety of everyone. They are very clearly trauma bonded and this will continue if they stay together. Just out of interest, would any of those saying keep them together be willing to have your 10 year old sexually abusive violent relative in the same house as your children? If you answered yes to that, you need serious help. Those poor boys have suffered beyond belief. Extensive therapy with trained professionals is the only way out of this - if there is one. OP doesn’t live in a happy ending Disney film.

In fairness the sexual abuse was a late mention by OP so I can see how it's got missed, but people were being ridiculously naive well before that.

OP you sound like a deeply committed and caring aunt. I’m sorry life has landed this at your door. Either way, when a decision has been made it would be good to seek some support for yourself to deal with the emotional fallout.

I won’t reiterate the excellent advice of PP but I will say I have seen LAs promise the sun, moon and stars to family carers in terms of respite, therapy, extending the home, allowances etc. I haven’t seen the same commitment to fulfilling these promises. Not through malice, but because LA budgets don’t allow for bespoke caring solutions. My own experience has been the LA I worked for heavily pushing SGOs to reduce the number of children that were ‘officially’ in care. No support, respite , therapy needed to be provided when a child was placed on a SGO. I’ve seen well-intentioned 22 year old single mums of 1 or 2 children suddenly become parent to 6 or 7 overnight with absolutely zero support. I’ve seen enormous impact on the birth children of the family.

You need to protect your own interests as well as those of your nephews.

💐

I missed one post so sorry about that but on further reading I feel you and your mum would be better off letting them move out of London and with people who are use to dealing with this sort of behaviour. It maybe too much for your children and you wouldn't want to upset your own children's life. X

@Bumpsadaisie

Lorddenning1

Just wanted to say your post really made me well up. Massive respect to you. What a power you had to make use of something good despite all the early adversity.

Yes, me too! Wet eyes all round!

Well done LordDenning - your foster family sound marvellous and you and your sisters deserve every bit of joy and happiness that comes to you. You have clearly worked hard to break the cycle and it’s lovely to read.

Happy upcoming anniversary to you and your parents ❤️

Take the youngest, let the others go into a placement outside the family. Even at 5 years old it will be hard to turn this boys life around, at 9 or 10 with that history I think they need to be outside the family and with specialist foster carers. Your Mum does not sound in a position to have any of them. But yes, if you can, stay in their lives, keep the door and your heart open, but know that they are going to have a difficult uphill battle to come out the other side of this ok. They have all been abused and had their emotional and safety needs neglected for so long that they will live with trauma forever.

@Soontobe60 It’s not at final hearing stage yet. This is the first court hearing. The social worker said if they make plans to place the children prior to the judge’s decision they will look prejudiced against keeping the family together and it can affect the outcome.

My own children are 15 and 16, turning 16 and 17 soon. They have healthy boundaries and are not at risk of sexual abuse from their 10 year old nephew. The plan would have been own bedrooms. My children already have locks on their doors and they are able to protect themselves and report to me any concerns. If I had young children I would never have even considered it. I’m clearly not going to put my own children at risk.

Having said that me and my partner have had a very long chat overnight. We have decided that we are not the best option for these children and that taking 1 without the others would traumatise them more and leave them feeling abandoned. So we will not be offering a placement to any of them but will asking for regular contact with all 3 of them.

My mum however still feels she wants to take 1. She will be offering on the 5 year old. I suspect she won’t be deemed suitable however, particularly as there is no way my mum would cut contact with my sister as my mum is the only support she has.

I’ll update next week how we get on. Thanks for all the advice.

Wishing your family all the best, NameChange.

I think you’ve made the right choice @Namechange543. Be kind to yourself, you sound like a loving aunt and you can still be a positive influence in the children’s lives without taking them on full time. All the best

As someone who took in their niece I know how hard it can be, and DN was nowhere near as traumatised, I would say you've absolutely made the right decision.

Sounds like a good decision made in the context of an absolutely horrible situation.

All the best to you and the children.

Wishing you the best, OP

Wishing you strength in the difficult road ahead.

NameChange I think you have come to the right decision here TBH.You sound a lovely caring person .As you say you can keep in touch with them, and they will have you as a nice kind Aunt .Probably unlikely DM will be considered suitable due to her age and the fact she is still on contact with your sister.I wish all of you well .It isnt very often that we hear of the impact on families when child abuse is mentioned .Hugs to you take care xx

Well done op. To be honest I'd be flagging up concerns with the SW about your mums offer and how she's unlikely to keep your sister away.

Namechange I think this is a sensible decision.
It is a shame that your mum isn't able to reach the same decision as her circumstances are even more unsuitable but hopefully this will be obvious to social services.
Good luck with the future and the stresses still to come.

What an awful situation to find yourself in. I agree that it sounds like these children will need specialist placements to help with the trauma they’ve experienced. It is no failing on your part.

op, so hard for you!

I understand your decision completely OP and I can tell it's not one you've made lightly.

I doubt SS will approve your mum to care for the 5 year old based on the close relationship she has with your sister. They would expect your sister to be kept away and if your mum is unable/unwilling to do that then they'll say there's an inability to put the childs best interests first and it's just not safe.

If your sister is violent then there would obviously be concerns that she could be a risk to your mum if your mum did try to implement no contact. At her stage of life it just seems too much for her to take on.

Sending you all strength for the coming weeks

What I think you should do however is invest your time and support into become their advocate and the person who 'holds' that family bond. So you co-ordinate the three placements for time for the three of them to be together at your house, you coordinate time that they say your mother, whether that's individually or together, you are essentially the one who facilitates them still being 'family' while (hopefully) they get the help they need in their individual placements

This is excellent advice. I’d also get legal advice, as the local authority sound pretty useless.

OP "So we will not be offering a placement to any of them but will asking for regular contact with all 3 of them." A good choice I think, you will be able to provide support equally to them all and that will mean you can be advocating for them too. Brilliant.

"My mum however still feels she wants to take 1. She will be offering on the 5 year old. I suspect she won’t be deemed suitable however, particularly as there is no way my mum would cut contact with my sister as my mum is the only support she has."

I really hope your mum will not get the chance to share her one-bedroom flat with a growing and traumatized boy.

I became a mum (for the second time) to a 3 year old in my late 40s. He's now nearly ten and I am five years younger than your mum, and he is not traumatised and he can be hard work! I have a dh and a three bed house. It's not just about space but when you want to get away from a child, or a parent, certainly having more space/a garden with trampoline etc does really help.

Your mum is wanting to help and I think that is good but I can't see how she can provide a 5 year old with all he needs in her situation and bearing in mind his situation.

Other grandparents do go on to parent their children's children and it is sometimes very successful I know. But your mum does seem to have the odds stacked against her, even without the fact she is also your sister's support.

Good luck. XXXXXX

I'm glad to see you have reached a decision you are comfortable with. It's such a heartbreaking situation, but those children will hopefully be placed with experienced foster carers who can meet their needs and you can maintain a good relationship as their auntie. You will also be better placed to help your mum with the younger one if he is placed with her e.g having him for a day or couple of hours to give her respite.

I think you have made the best decision for your DN and I sincerely hope your DM in her 1 bed flat who is unlikely to cut contact with your disinter isn't considered suitable.

It may possibly that your DN can visit at weekends one at a time as well shorter visits.

@lorddenning1 my siblings and I went through similar and came out the other end too, going to university, doing well. It is really great to hear your story too. I think that the most important thing is to have at least one adult around who deeply cares about you and understands you.