Ways that men "check out " of family life

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Inspired by another thread where its apparently unreasonable to expect someone to stay and help on Xmas day and wanting them to do so is controlling, it got me thinking of all the ways in which partners , very often male partners, check out of family life

We see many threads on this also

We have- hobbies. The ones that seemingly involve alot of time and/or expense. Often involve smoking or drinking or getting dirty and smelly so inevitably upon return showers etc are needed before they can hug or pick.up.a child.

Luxury poos. Never is it ok to wait for u. You must wait for them by any means necessary. Strange how even bodily functions can be used to assert dominance or unavailability.

The " I've been at work all day" excuse. We all know the house cleans itself. The dinner miraculously appears in the slow cooker and the kids can walk several miles to school by themselves even in reception.

The " we can't afford the time.off work " excuse. Usually followed by a day off fir them to do their hobby.

The " you have the car" clause. Because buses don't exist.. nor do trains . I mean how did i manage before I got the car?

The falling asleep on the sofa method. This is a particularly frustrating one because fir some they honestly believe their presence in the house is enough to be considered to be contributing.

And last but not least the " I don't know where anything goes/how to get there/ I don't know anyone / the kids prefer u to do it" method used to excuse no one putting washing away or getting home work.done while you are working.

Feel free to add any more

Sone more excellent examples have Neen added..sorry for all of u living with similar now!

I'd like to add man flu to the list. The illness that affects men so badly they must take to the bed or sofa immediately whilst simultaneously expecting us to carry on as normal because they can't afford time off work to help out when we are sick.

Being left to deal with a baby in the throws of a stomach bug because they dont wanna come home is great fun.

And the pub. It's never the pub.is.it. it's always " networking " there's always some important reason fir work that they need to be there. I comforted myself In the thoughts that the colleagues know he has a small baby and must secretly assume he's a dickead fir being out to 4am without contacting anyone to let them know.

And of course there's the mum dump. These men almost always apparently hate their mother yet if forced to look after small children for any length of time suddenly they like to visit because they get fed and the dog/cat/neighbours child keeps them occupied

Look

I can blame anyone and it makes no difference at all because I’m not living with it.

You are. Like it or not you are not passive in that choice. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@RJnomore1

Look

I can blame anyone and it makes no difference at all because I’m not living with it.

You are. Like it or not you are not passive in that choice. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thanks a lot for the support

Genuinely, what would you like me to say? Of yes he’s awful (agreed) what a Shane, keep on sorting it out?

It doesn’t help you and it doesn’t help any other woman reading this thinking she hasn’t choice. I wish you weren’t living like that, you obviously do from the way you are talking, until you believe you can do something to change it nothing will change.

And that’s my overall point. It’s not funny or helpful to moan about how useless men are while picking up the slack that lets them be. Just be Crystal clear, I am talking on a group basis here and not having a dig at you personally.

@RJnomore1

Genuinely, what would you like me to say? Of yes he’s awful (agreed) what a Shane, keep on sorting it out?

It doesn’t help you and it doesn’t help any other woman reading this thinking she hasn’t choice. I wish you weren’t living like that, you obviously do from the way you are talking, until you believe you can do something to change it nothing will change.

And that’s my overall point. It’s not funny or helpful to moan about how useless men are while picking up the slack that lets them be. Just be Crystal clear, I am talking on a group basis here and not having a dig at you personally.

I notice you haven't suggested any concrete solutions though RHnomore1?

I don't want to leave because he is genuinely a good person in other ways . Also, I am mature enough to know that I am not exactly a perfect shining saint in all areas of my life. We have a lot of love and shared history of 30 years together.

I have tried another solution; going on strike and that didn't work.

I have also tried explaining myself, writing lists, suggesting routines, task division, and some of them have worked and stuck, but not all of them.

Neither of us are massively house proud but I am much more house proud than him.

His mess is a massive PITA . It drags me down. I have been honest about it. But not to the extent that I want a divorce.

What do you suggest a woman does in that situation?

If you don't want to "blame" women then what are your solutions please?

I'm with you slow

Its always our fault in some way isn't it? Even down to the having to discuss it . Why is irrelevant role automatically that of mother.

These men know what needs to be done. If they acted as they do when part of a family , when they lived alone they'd be dead. Because they'd have forgotten to eat or the dinner would be burnt in oven because the 8 yer old wasn't about to wake them up to tell them dinner must be ready now.

They'd have gotten the sack at work because u cant spend 50 mins in the toilet . You cant walk away from.jobs because they are too hard and someone else will.just take over.

The fact that they were alive well and clothed when u met them is proof enough they can do it.

Stop blaming the women. I.mean of course we are going to wash up of its not done. How can I do the kids packed lunches if the lunchbox is still full of the remains of the previous lunch?

Ok - relationship counselling? One of my friends in a similar situation has her partner pay for a cleaner to do his half? Or as I said, if it’s lying around bin it.

It’s not my relationship and it’s not my problem to solve but there’s three suggestions without me even breaking a sweat.

I do not believe all these people who say “he’s lovely BUT” and then spell out some major issue that they go on to say impacts on their quality of life and mental health. Lovely people don’t put their partners through that. People in good relationships who respect each other don’t put their partners through that. It doesn’t really matter what the “that” is.

You are mega defensive about this. If it’s just a wee relationship grip fine, as you say none of us are perfect. I do things that annoy DH and vice Versa. But if any of those things were having the sort of impact you are describing, (then trying to make out it’s actually quite normal) we would find a way to stop it. And if he didn’t yes the relationship would be in danger and I hope he would think the same way.

Something that is making you ill is NOT okay.

DH has a habit of ignoring me when I tell him the dates for school holidays, so he can book annual leave, until it's too late and he is 'forced' to book his leave in term time. His other excuse is that as we live in a tourist area everywhere is so busy in school holidays (which is true) therefore there is no point in him booking his time off then. Missing the point that I do all the school holidays childcare with zero support (no family locally).

I'd like to add man flu to the list. The illness that affects men so badly they must take to the bed or sofa immediately whilst simultaneously expecting us to carry on as normal because they can't afford time off work to help out when we are sick.

This reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a friend whose husband worked all hours of the day and night (mind you, this was in the bad old days of the 80s, when leaving the office before midnight was virtually a sackable offence). She was telling me, not without a hint of envy, about a mutual acquaintance whose husband cancelled a business trip when she was struck down with flu, because he wouldn't leave her to cope on her own with four children.

"I've often wondered," my friend said, "how ill I would have to be before I qualified for that..."

@RJnomore1

Ok - relationship counselling? One of my friends in a similar situation has her partner pay for a cleaner to do his half? Or as I said, if it’s lying around bin it.

It’s not my relationship and it’s not my problem to solve but there’s three suggestions without me even breaking a sweat.

I do not believe all these people who say “he’s lovely BUT” and then spell out some major issue that they go on to say impacts on their quality of life and mental health. Lovely people don’t put their partners through that. People in good relationships who respect each other don’t put their partners through that. It doesn’t really matter what the “that” is.

You are mega defensive about this. If it’s just a wee relationship grip fine, as you say none of us are perfect. I do things that annoy DH and vice Versa. But if any of those things were having the sort of impact you are describing, (then trying to make out it’s actually quite normal) we would find a way to stop it. And if he didn’t yes the relationship would be in danger and I hope he would think the same way.

Something that is making you ill is NOT okay.

Oh fhs, the reason I am "mega-defensive" in your view is because YOU are constantly blaming me and other women and putting me in a situation where I need to defend myself!

Where did I say he was making me ill? I said it was dragging me down. There's a difference. Surely everyone's mh is better when things are organised and uncluttered? Don't try and make this out to be something it is not.

We had a cleaner before the pandemic. She has gone on to do other things. I will try and find another one. But that doesn't really solve the problem of tidying up because I don't expect a cleaner to do that, as I want them to actually clean.

And I am sorry but your view of relationships is far too simplistic. Women and men are not all the same. They have different priorities. Disagreement in one area does not mean there is not huge mutual respect in another.

And if you think relationship counselling will solve the problem of dh emptying his pockets out on to the dining table and leaving his shoes cables and papers and half empty coffee cups all over the house, then frankly I think you are the one that needs counselling!

"The "I've been at work all day" excuse. We all know the house cleans itself. The dinner miraculously appears in the slow cooker and the kids can walk several miles to school by themselves even in reception.

Oh, the hard life of a housewife. 😂

It definitely takes 40+ hours a week to clean the house, y'know.

And if you think relationship counselling will solve the problem of dh emptying his pockets out on to the dining table and leaving his shoes cables and papers and half empty coffee cups all over the house, then frankly I think you are the one that needs counselling!

Everytime he does something like this, imagine he's saying "Fuck you"
Cause that's what he's doing.

Dumps his pockets, CBA to tidy up.. 'fuck you, you do it.'
Leaving shit around the house, 'fuck you, you tidy them up'

Because that's what he's doing. He's saying his time is more important than yours and the things that he bears no mind to aren't worthy of his concerns, but your time and mind aren't as important as his.

Keep a little diary of how many times he's said fuck you in a week and then decide that if he was really saying it to your face, if you'd still think he was "good"

@FissionMailed

And if you think relationship counselling will solve the problem of dh emptying his pockets out on to the dining table and leaving his shoes cables and papers and half empty coffee cups all over the house, then frankly I think you are the one that needs counselling!

Everytime he does something like this, imagine he's saying "Fuck you"
Cause that's what he's doing.

Dumps his pockets, CBA to tidy up.. 'fuck you, you do it.'
Leaving shit around the house, 'fuck you, you tidy them up'

Because that's what he's doing. He's saying his time is more important than yours and the things that he bears no mind to aren't worthy of his concerns, but your time and mind aren't as important as his.

Keep a little diary of how many times he's said fuck you in a week and then decide that if he was really saying it to your face, if you'd still think he was "good"

Er, no. You don't know him. And he really isn't.

That thought would not actually pass through his head.

He's perfectly happy if I don't tidy it up! He would not notice.

I am not perfectly happy living in a total shit tip though.

But by all means, please carry on making things up!

But by all means, please carry on making things up!

Ok, I will

How about this:

Oh Dumps shit
You ask them not too
OH continues dumping shit, thus ignoring your request, this proving he doesn't register your needs, thus saying...

Is that easier to understand?

For me the issue is that women get judged far more harshly and they know it. So if your house is a tip but two adults (one man, one woman) live there, people will judge the woman more harshly. Same if the kids are being given nuggets not quinoa for tea. So the women try harder. Things will only change if women stop caring so much about what society thinks of them (they need to be the perfect wife and mother), and that will only happen if little girls are treated EXACTLY the same as little boys.

@FissionMailed

But by all means, please carry on making things up!

Ok, I will

How about this:

Oh Dumps shit
You ask them not too
OH continues dumping shit, thus ignoring your request, this proving he doesn't register your needs, thus saying...

Is that easier to understand?

Yes, I can read, thanks for patronising as well as blaming!

[Feminism apparently alive and well on this thread!]

But the narrative in dh's thead is "I will dump this here, because I am going out to meeting, because I am in a hurry, because I worked three hours longer than I meant to, because I can't miss this deadline, because I don't want to lose this client"

I am not saying that it is right for him to dump his shit but that is a long way from "fuck you".

But by all means, go on making things up to suit your black and white narrative.

These men know what needs to be done. If they acted as they do when part of a family , when they lived alone they'd be dead.

Hear, hear.
My eldest said to me yesterday, I bet IT (we call him) is dead because he can’t even properly put a sock in the toaster for tea.
No, no… the irony is that he’s probably lost weight, tarted himself up, bought new clothes, showered (something he’d stopped doing, which became unbearable in the end), fucking PAID for a haircut (instead of hiring me as the untrained hairdresser for years then moaning about my haircuts he’d insisted upon!).
He may be jail-bound but believe me, that won’t stop him from seeking another ‘carer’ to look after him.

I find these men tend to have terrible relationships with really dysfunctional mothers, in general… relationships they don’t cut off (like a healthy person would) but instead feed. It’s a pattern.

You are the one who said you didn’t want to live like that for stress and MH issues! Not me.

I don’t need counselling - im in a happy balanced relationship, not online saying my husbands actions are affecting my happiness and mental health. I’m not being defensive because I have no reason to. The reason you’re defensive is I’m hitting a nerve - and @FissionMailed is right it’s a massive fuck you to you. It happens all the time on here and the one thing I know for sn absolute fact won’t make it better is being passive about it.

You’ve come in here and made out I’m “blaming” people and in particular tried to make out I’m having a go at you when what I have quite clearly been saying is it’s a man issue but if we keep fixing it for them they will keep doing it.

Nothing I say or don’t say is going to change your relationship. I’ve got no power in your life. If you’re happy in it fine but don’t then say it’s impacting your MH and happiness? And don’t pretend if there is an issue that’s impacting on you you are powerless about it when you are the only person who could do something if you choose to 🤷🏻‍♀️

@LiveFromNewYork

For me the issue is that women get judged far more harshly and they know it. So if your house is a tip but two adults (one man, one woman) live there, people will judge the woman more harshly. Same if the kids are being given nuggets not quinoa for tea. So the women try harder. Things will only change if women stop caring so much about what society thinks of them (they need to be the perfect wife and mother), and that will only happen if little girls are treated EXACTLY the same as little boys.

^^ THIS. 100%.

I am not saying that it is right for him to dump his shit but that is a long way from "fuck you".

I actually said to imagine he's saying it everytime, not that he is.
But you crack on cleaning up after him, it's working well for you. Maybe ask him not to again, I'm sure he'll respect your request because he loves you and considers your feelings in all he does.

I think often the only action that can be taken is to leave. It's not as if the woman has never thought of complaining or not speaking or demanding that they do and do

@RJnomore1

You are the one who said you didn’t want to live like that for stress and MH issues! Not me.

I don’t need counselling - im in a happy balanced relationship, not online saying my husbands actions are affecting my happiness and mental health. I’m not being defensive because I have no reason to. The reason you’re defensive is I’m hitting a nerve - and @FissionMailed is right it’s a massive fuck you to you. It happens all the time on here and the one thing I know for sn absolute fact won’t make it better is being passive about it.

You’ve come in here and made out I’m “blaming” people and in particular tried to make out I’m having a go at you when what I have quite clearly been saying is it’s a man issue but if we keep fixing it for them they will keep doing it.

Nothing I say or don’t say is going to change your relationship. I’ve got no power in your life. If you’re happy in it fine but don’t then say it’s impacting your MH and happiness? And don’t pretend if there is an issue that’s impacting on you you are powerless about it when you are the only person who could do something if you choose to 🤷🏻‍♀️

Apologies op, I sincerely did not wish to hi-jack this thread with a back and forth so this will be my last post. And I totally agree about your practical point about the washing up etc.

Apart from anything else, I have Christmas prep to attend to while dh cooks dinner

RJnomore1 I am standing up for women on here. Women who are being blamed for men's behaviour. I think that is a feminist position to take. I am defending women as a whole and in doing that I was required to defend my own position. That is very different from being defensive in general.

Every single person on earth has better mh and feels happier in themselves and less stressed if their house is relatively well organised and uncluttered. And yes I include myself in that. I think it is a bit shoddy to try and turn that in to me having a mh issue in order to make a point. A very male tactic dare I say, one used by Victorian husbands fairly regularly!

You say you are not blaming me specifically but then in the next paragraph you go on to comment on my individual relationship, a relationship you know nothing about. I think I am more qualified to comment about my own nearly 30 year relationship than you are thanks.

You say I could choose to do something about it and I have tried various tactics over the years. I have absolutely have not been passive. (There you go blaming women again, for passivity this time!) I freely admit and have been honest that my tactics haven't altogether worked and you have used that against me in your argument. When that is my dh's fault, not mine. And I don't consider your supposed solutions any more practical or effective.

You are blaming me, and you are blaming women in general, to use your words, for "creating and facilitating" these issues. I think that is wrong and unfair. And you obviously don't like being challenged on it.

The simple fact is, if the men did what they were supposed to in the first place, the situation of women supposedly facilitating men' s behaviour would not even arise would it?

So why blame women for it when they are just trying to do the right thing by themselves, and by their dc?

Facilitating my arse!

Disposing of the Christmas Tree, to avoid paying £5 for a charity to take it away (It was still out in the garden in June, the following June)

Declaring they will never waste time on Gardening books or You Tube vids and finding out how to care for specific plants. Spending all Weekend in the garden chopping down anything that grows, to the root sometimes but secretly having a smoke. Having a 4 hour nap afterwards.

Painting 3 quarters of a wall, and only putting down one small sheet of newspaper to protect the floor, thereby getting paint spray everywhere, but leaving out the "difficult" areas - because "you like doing the fussy bits". Painting over dust, which has to be redone. Painting with 10 year old dirt and dried paint clogged brushes which leave rust streaks from the metal handle binding on the "painted" surface.
I could go on.

I think we have very different views on feminism. I view feminism as not being a doormat and not letting other women think it’s normal to be one.

Of course if men just stepped up it would be better. You’ve had 30 years of that not happening.

See that narrative of “I’m busy I did this I have that to do” up there? Think of it as a narrative of “ I’m busy I’m important what I want to do matters most and someone else less important will sort it for me”. Cos that’s it.

I’m fine being challenged. Like I said, I’m happy with my relationship. You’re the one who raised your individual relationship not me. I’m sorry I won’t contribute to your construction that it’s normal and ok but I cannot do that with any level of congruence in what I know.

Drunk pandas last sentence is absolutely spot on.

Anyway -why are you getting a angry with me and not the bloke who’s treating you like a household appliance?