Ways that men "check out " of family life

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Inspired by another thread where its apparently unreasonable to expect someone to stay and help on Xmas day and wanting them to do so is controlling, it got me thinking of all the ways in which partners , very often male partners, check out of family life

We see many threads on this also

We have- hobbies. The ones that seemingly involve alot of time and/or expense. Often involve smoking or drinking or getting dirty and smelly so inevitably upon return showers etc are needed before they can hug or pick.up.a child.

Luxury poos. Never is it ok to wait for u. You must wait for them by any means necessary. Strange how even bodily functions can be used to assert dominance or unavailability.

The " I've been at work all day" excuse. We all know the house cleans itself. The dinner miraculously appears in the slow cooker and the kids can walk several miles to school by themselves even in reception.

The " we can't afford the time.off work " excuse. Usually followed by a day off fir them to do their hobby.

The " you have the car" clause. Because buses don't exist.. nor do trains . I mean how did i manage before I got the car?

The falling asleep on the sofa method. This is a particularly frustrating one because fir some they honestly believe their presence in the house is enough to be considered to be contributing.

And last but not least the " I don't know where anything goes/how to get there/ I don't know anyone / the kids prefer u to do it" method used to excuse no one putting washing away or getting home work.done while you are working.

Feel free to add any more

[KatharinaRosalie]

CeliaCanth I had my children relatively late and saw so many friends doing exactly that. Some would also prepare meals for the entire duration of their trip. One would not be able to go, unless her mum or MIL came to feed and take care of the DC, as husband was simply 'not arsed able to cope'.
So I was warned and made sure I did exactly the men's option, packed the suitcase and left. Surprisingly, as DH is a fully functioning adult, he has always been able to figure out that children need to be fed, wear clothes and get to school.

[KatharinaRosalie]

unable to do any job without fucking it up

weaponized incompetence. Making sure you won't ask again.

[Disfordarkchocolate]

Having had a first husband who did all of them and more I'm glad to say my second husband only does the 'ages in the bathroom' thing. He does all the hoovering and floor washing too. I know I'm in a minority though. What's worse is how conditioned women are to accepting this crap, so many women on here are grateful for such poor behaviour.

[Clymene]

This thread is reminding of this article: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sinkbb_9055288

If you haven't read it before, I urge you to. Because it exposes a simple truth - one which I've got stick about for saying on here before - they do it (or don't do it) because they simply don't care about you.

[RJnomore1]

@slowchimes you’re still not getting it!

What did you do with all that stuff when you tidied up?

Because IF it reached the stage I felt I had to, id assume if it was lying about for eight weeks it wasn’t needed and unless it was mine/directly affected me I’d bin it.

By solving a problem you make it yours. Make it their problem again if you absolutely must act.

You buckled and now it’s all your job either forever or until you crack and —murder him— end it.

[KimikosNightmare]

I'm going to blame socialisation as well. I've written out a list of everything that's going to need done by Christmas. Technically not all of it isnecessarybut it is me who will be judged and blamed if it is not done

Who is going to judge and blame you?

[RJnomore1]

I’m embarrassed to admit I’m the one in my marriage who refused to do sick. I’ve phoned him back from the gym, shop etc to clean it up. I’d only do it if there was no other option at all.

I do pull my weight in other ways though.

[HavfrueDenizKisi]

The sad thing about that particular thread referenced in the OP and all the million similar other ones is the acceptance and facilitating done by women. The ones in the relationships and the ones condemning women on these threads as controlling or being martyrs or needing to allow their partner the space they need. Or the shite response of 'take time for yourself'. That's not the bloody problem is it? It's the incredibly low bar so many women accept for their partners and the years of allowing them to behave like this.

Really makes my blood boil.

[SydneyCarton]

DP has a variation on the “too busy to take holiday” thing, in that he books the time off, but then manages his workload so poorly that he ends up cancelling the first couple of days of leave and working instead. This means I spend two days of leave looking after the children solo, not going anywhere as they’re still small and it’s awkward to manage them alone, and he then complains when I don’t have enough leave to take a day off and go to the cinema or out for lunch.

[Slowchimes]

[quote RJnomore1]@slowchimes you’re still not getting it!

What did you do with all that stuff when you tidied up?

Because IF it reached the stage I felt I had to, id assume if it was lying about for eight weeks it wasn’t needed and unless it was mine/directly affected me I’d bin it.

By solving a problem you make it yours. Make it their problem again if you absolutely must act.

You buckled and now it’s all your job either forever or until you crack and —murder him— end it.[/quote]
Oh I get it RJnomore ...I just disagree that women "create and facilitate" this behaviour and I disagree that the solution is as simple as you are making it out to be! I am not the one who created the mess in the first place! Don't blame me for that please!

[RJnomore1]

No it’s not a simple solution and it creates conflict. As I said I adopt this approach at work as well. It requires a massive amount of confidence to let things go wrong when you know you can fix them but the more you fix, the more you become the fixer. And the more for granted you are taken, resentful you become etc.

If that isn’t facilitating, what is it?

[ProfessionalWeirdo]

Reading some of the comments on this thread reminds me of the words of the late great Katharine Whitehorn:

"[All fathers should know] that Elizabethandthechildren is actually four words, not one."

It's also made me realise how lucky I am to have married a Domestic God. When DS1 was three and saw me using the vacuum cleaner, he asked me what I was doing with Daddy's hoover!

[TheVanguardSix]

I think the biggest issue for many of us women is we really do get thrown under the bus financially and become dependent on these shitbags who discourage us from growing, from working, from doing anything that will enable our own independence, all under the guise of 'I earn more. You don't need to work. The kids will benefit from you staying at home/working 6 hours a week for bupkis'. If I had one bit of advice for women it's: NEVER stop working/training/working on yourself. You are your best commodity! Never lose sight of that.

It's a bummer, especially if, like me, you really enjoy being a SAHM parent, but it really fucks you over if you're with an unsupportive partner who has the emotional intelligence of a gnat. Because it doesn't work out with these men. Divorce is on the cards (and so it should be!). But you really, really have to look after yourself and your children and put yourself in a position of security. Because these assholes won't!

[Comedycook]

I actually think a big problem is that men are often not particularly bothered about having children. They go along with it...but are ambivalent really.

Being a father is a side effect of having a wife.

[Pegasussnail]

comedycook

This is what I would do.. I would actually go out. Tell dh you have migraine and need fresh air or your granny has called and needs something. 100 percent do not cook when he has invited people over and does nothing.

[Slowchimes]

@RJnomore1

No it’s not a simple solution and it creates conflict. As I said I adopt this approach at work as well. It requires a massive amount of confidence to let things go wrong when you know you can fix them but the more you fix, the more you become the fixer. And the more for granted you are taken, resentful you become etc.

If that isn’t facilitating, what is it?

RJnomore1 again, I am simply rejecting wholeheartedly that my husband's mess is my fault. I refuse to be blamed for it!

[Comedycook]

@Pegasussnail

comedycook

This is what I would do.. I would actually go out. Tell dh you have migraine and need fresh air or your granny has called and needs something. 100 percent do not cook when he has invited people over and does nothing.

It's funny isn't it..I care so much about what guests think of me. Is the bathroom clean? Is the food nice? I've just hidden the gravy granules and packet of ready made Yorkshire puddings! Are the children looking presentable? Do I look nice? Dh saw me scrubbing the kitchen floor and told me there's no need, the Queen isn't coming over! I suppose as women we feel our homes are a reflection of us.

[Fritilleries]

@converseandjeans

whatwouldscullydo

I mean who among us hasn't gone to town/shops and bumped into a family member who proceeds to say how wonderful it is that then dad is home taking care of the kids. Single mothers r the scum.of the earth with their benefits and council houses but by God a man is a Saint If he's a single dad.

Agree with this. Single Mums get a hard time. The poor woman who lost the twins in the fire left them home alone - yes it was wrong - but the Dad left her alone & she was expected to cope. She has made a huge mistake & the Dad is devastated. But where was he 🤷🏻‍♀️

DH used to take kids to mass as babies & was considered to be wonderful. He was only out the house 90 mins. I'd have them all Saturday afternoon while he went to watch footie for maybe 6 hours. I can't recall anyone saying I was wonderful for doing this!

Er..... she made a choice to leave the house. That's on her.

[RJnomore1]

Why are you fixing it then if it’s not your fault? By doing that you are completely undermining everything you are saying!

[Slowchimes]

@RJnomore1

Why are you fixing it then if it’s not your fault? By doing that you are completely undermining everything you are saying!

Why are you blaming me for wanting to live in half decent living conditions?

I didn't create the mess in the first place.

And I don't want to live in it either.

You are attributing the blame to the wrong person!

[Doggydoodah123]

You've just described my BIL down to a tee.

[RJnomore1]

I’m absolutely not blaming you.

You are believing that your only two choices are to live in a tip or clean it yourself.

They are not and the way you are thinking will not solve your problem.

[Fritilleries]

Oh bore off. "Women" don't all think the same.

[RedBeetroot12]

Hmm I have the toilet situation. I don’t understand how to manage it with my partner. It causes conflict between us and I don’t want to be rude or a nag to him but I honestly don’t get why it takes 30 minutes or more to do the business. Surely if you need to go, it’s not something that takes that long? The phone is also brought in which makes me uneasy and paranoid, what on Earth is he doing in there, it feels like such a sneaky tactic !

[Slowchimes]

@RJnomore1

I’m absolutely not blaming you.

You are believing that your only two choices are to live in a tip or clean it yourself.

They are not and the way you are thinking will not solve your problem.

I don't want to get in to a tit for tat argument RJnomore1 because it is boring for everyone else but:

1. You ARE blaming me for supposedly "facilitating" the mess

and

1. What's worse you are blaming "so many women" for "creating and facilitating it"

I am respectfully suggesting that you reserve your ire for the men that do this, and not for women who live with it, because they receive enough blame and judgements about it from wider society as it is.

It is always the women who get the blame and I think that is unfair and wrong.

Your arguments are far too simplistic.

If you don't want your dc to live in a total mess?
If you yourself don't want to live in a mess yourself for stress and mh reasons?
If you wfh (I am preparing to launch a mini enterprise atm) and can't think or organise yourself in a mess?

And you have gone on strike to no avail? If your dh has got a lot better but not hugely better over thirty years of marriage. But your dh has many other genuinely good qualities. Tell me please, what do you suggest that the solution is?

(And I would like to emphasise here that I am NO domestic goddess and my level of "no mess" would probably horrify many other posters on Mumsnet, well the ones who only use a towel once and wash their bras every day.)

I am respectfully asking you to not blame the women but please reserve your blame for the person who creates the mess in the first place