I lied to ds about his pip. Because he was violent.

[Pipanger]

In a nut shell. Ds has some mental health issues. He was very aggressive and violent to me. It was awful and went on for sometime. Eventually ds went into supported accommodation. But he was still at my house alot more so than the accommodation he would spend most of his days amd nights in my house. Eating food, doing washing . Using the gas/electric.

Because of his aggression and violence. I couldn't explain to him that he needed to pay his way. So I lied to him about his pip. I told him that he was getting middle rate when he was actually getting heigh rate. I did this so I could take just under 300 for monthly house keeping

Things have changed now hes not really stayed at my house for the past 3 months. So I can't justify taking that money anymore. I have been saving it for him for the past 3 months.

The problem is that I lied but I done it out of safety and the fact I couldn't afford to pay for the stuff he was using.

But now hes not here he needs the full amount the problem is it don't want it to cause a massive fall out. I cant even just tell him theres been a change in his rate here's the money. Because hes claiming for a free bus pass and needs the proof of pip. So hes going to know when it all started. I cant just say you had to pay your way because he doesn't think he should and doesn't really know the cost of running things.

Hes also extremely bad with money his money is gone within 2-3 days of payment. Then he borrows money of everyone he knows. And the extra money he gets wont change that as he will do the same thing. Im an ideal world I would like to keep saving it for him

He won't agree. Hes only got 1000 saved for the last 3 months. So it wont buy much really. Ideally I would have liked to keep saving for him until he has quite alot . So he would have it to furnish his home. Once he has his full money I wont be able to save for him . He won't agree to carry on as we are as he only see the here and now.

Its very hard for people to understand unless they have experienced violence from their own child. You've done nothing wrong in my opinion, the money was for him and you have used it on supporting him. If you can, I would explain there has been an overpayment and he has a sum to spend. Id then say that you have needed to spend some to support him, and follow it up with how much you have saved for him.

A bit off-topic, but did you know that he can have his UC paid twice a month, and even weekly in some circumstances? It would partially solve the problem of him spending all of his money in a couple of days.

I have heard of people having a cash card that is stopped at £25 per day I think.

OP could you present the saved money as a nice surprise that you thought he might need to furnish his new accommodation? Polish the turd a little.

Doesn",t he get unemployment, benefit ?

Its ok not of topic really he already has it twice a month. I didn't know about the weekly though. I will definitely adl hom sadly I doubt he will agree. But will definitely ask him

That was the original idea. I was just going to keep saving it till he got housed so depending on how long that takes i could have saved 4k for him. But I dont think I can now.

Why are you asking that ?

If he wants to blow the money instead of saving it to furnish his house, then he'll have to accept the consequences of living in an unfurnished house. You can't keep babying him forever.

Very true.

I just wanted to send you an unmumsnetty hug. You sound like you are doing your best in a very difficult situation. And you've kept going, despite everything. I don't really have any great advice, but please do keep yourself safe. I know we always prioritise our kids, but you matter too.

What a fantastic idea!

I never knew about this but it will be very helpful for people who are ND or have drug issues.

Thank you that's so kind thank you so much. I am safe thank you. 💐

I was just trying to look it seems complicated.

So you only want to hear from people who agree with you? Ok. Well I don’t disagree nor do I agree.

firstly, if he is bad with money it is your job as his mum to look after him. If that includes keeping money tucked away for him and making sure he has enough to live, eat, etc then so be it.

secondly, you are really dismissive of your part in this problem. And I’m not talking about your oh shit what do I do he’s gonna catch me out problem. I’m talking about the problem that your child is disabled and he is your responsibility and you don’t seem to recognise that you don’t have the moral high ground over him - a man who, to your own admission, doesn’t understand money and can’t live independently.

so if he doesn’t understand how much it costs to run a house, why are you so determined he shouldn’t come and “eat for free”. He is your responsibility. You brought him into the world and sadly he has difficulties that mean he can’t survive independently. So why shouldn’t you pay for him? Why shouldn’t you do this? I mean, I think you should. I think if your kid is disabled and needs your help you break your back to do so.

so back to my original point - you aren’t ‘wrong’ to use his pip if you are making his money decision. But if you aren’t and you expect him to be fully competent to not “eat for free at mums house”, then you’re just stealing. but you don’t make yourself look good acting like he owes you his money because he should have capabilities you say he doesn’t have.

It’s really very difficult though when the disabled person is larger than you, or angrier, or is walking the line between having capacity and not having capacity. Being bad with money does not automatically mean they lack capacity.

You’re absolutely right and I do understand that op is in a catch 22 and it’s not a straightforward case of right and wrong.

I don’t know what pip statements for proof look like but hopefully there’s a chance they aren’t that obvious and she can just get away without him realising. I don’t think she is stealing off him in some malicious way - I think she probably doesn’t get carers allowance now he’s moved (if she ever did) yet he’s still requiring basically the same amount of financial, emotional and physical input and that must be so stressful. And if he’s violent it must just be even more draining.

I think that the threads didn’t do this justice though - they make her look quite…I don’t even know. But not like she took the money from a selfless place, with his best interests at heart. And if she’s going to get support to get herself out of this mess she would be wise to recognise how she’s coming across.

She’s literally said he doesn’t live independently and doesn’t understand costs of food/running a household. This is a symptom of his disability. So therefore, he doesn’t understand what he is doing in financial terms when he takes her food etc. So how is she using a symptom of his disability.to take money from him? You see how that looks?

If is her responsibility, as the person who brought him into the world, to cope with and manage and absorb as best she can the symptoms of his disability so as to provide him the best life she can. So I agree to do so she needed to find the money to cover his eating/electricity - however her attitude is very pissy and like she’s taking the money for her own sake, not his.

If reads as though she took the money so she’s not out of pocket, rather than to ensure he can eat what he need to. (Ie manage his disability)

She keeps saying he can’t just eat free food like he’s some kind of lodger who is being cheeky and mooching off her. He’s not. He’s her disabled son and she said he is not aware of the ramifications of his actions.

it’s basically like having a child who has a bladder problem, who keeps wetting the bed/sofa/carpets. These things need to be replaced but to take money off them to do so seems unreasonable right? Because they’re not neurologically/mentally disabled so they make their own choices and also, it’s not their fault they’re disabled and urinate regularly.

ok so it’s not her son’s fault that he doesn’t understand household costs, yet because he isn’t fully independent she just takes his money and complains about him? Fair take his money but don’t criticise.

I think it looks fine. I’m 26 and live at home. I don’t have the ins and outs of running a house, but I pay keep. She’s appointee because he doesn’t have the requisite capacity and thus she has to make the decision on how much rent etc he pays.

it’s basically like having a child who has a bladder problem, who keeps wetting the bed/sofa/carpets. These things need to be replaced but to take money off them to do so seems unreasonable right?

That wouldn’t be unreasonable. It would be what the DLA/PIP is for.

just tell him the pip people made a mistake - they underpaid him but have now sorted things and here is the extra money

You can’t ignore the comments that are telling you the truth. It’s theft and financial abuse imo.

“Good news Ds, now that you are in your new accommodation and not here at home all the time, here’s the money that would have gone towards your expenses here. Your all settled now so the full PIP amount will go towards you each month… byeeee!”

The more frequent payments sound ideal for him.

Your entitled to your opinion

Exactly this and I didn't tell him because I wasn't willing to put myself at risk.

Not as his legal appointee it's not. 🙄🙄