I lied to ds about his pip. Because he was violent.

[Pipanger]

In a nut shell. Ds has some mental health issues. He was very aggressive and violent to me. It was awful and went on for sometime. Eventually ds went into supported accommodation. But he was still at my house alot more so than the accommodation he would spend most of his days amd nights in my house. Eating food, doing washing . Using the gas/electric.

Because of his aggression and violence. I couldn't explain to him that he needed to pay his way. So I lied to him about his pip. I told him that he was getting middle rate when he was actually getting heigh rate. I did this so I could take just under 300 for monthly house keeping

Things have changed now hes not really stayed at my house for the past 3 months. So I can't justify taking that money anymore. I have been saving it for him for the past 3 months.

The problem is that I lied but I done it out of safety and the fact I couldn't afford to pay for the stuff he was using.

But now hes not here he needs the full amount the problem is it don't want it to cause a massive fall out. I cant even just tell him theres been a change in his rate here's the money. Because hes claiming for a free bus pass and needs the proof of pip. So hes going to know when it all started. I cant just say you had to pay your way because he doesn't think he should and doesn't really know the cost of running things.

Hes also extremely bad with money his money is gone within 2-3 days of payment. Then he borrows money of everyone he knows. And the extra money he gets wont change that as he will do the same thing. Im an ideal world I would like to keep saving it for him

I'm appointee for my son, although he only gets middle rate. He isn't violent though and knows I access his bank account for the money he pays for board. I do everything for him including fighting for his PIP every two years. I assume you did too. I don't think there's anything wrong with what you have done, my son pays £600 a month for board, and to be honest it's not covering half the bills. He showers more than I do, he eats more than I do, etc. Just give him the facts. Explain that you couldn't have managed otherwise. Maybe tell him in a public place so that there are people around if he gets violent.

Does this £600 go towards rent also?

Oh gosh yes ds was using alot in the house. He was doing his own washing but leaving it in the machine it would end being washed about 3 times before he actually took it . He was using 2 wash pods at a time so that was 6 for 1 wash that kept being rewashed.

He was cooking at 2,/3/4 in the morning . Tv on xbox/ pc gaming on. Lots of showers. My utility bills didn't get a rest.

Ignore other posters who have been unkind here. I have a family member with similar issues to your son, supported housing is not a fix all for anyone and he can be very temperamental and takes up huge amount of time from our family to keep him safe (financially, emotionally, physically)

How old is he OP if he is under 18 that is different to him being an adult.

Yes its very hard.and complicated there's no easy fix. And things that should be simple are complicated. All sorts of awful things have happend to ds.

Hes 18

OK, that makes it difficult doesn't it. He is going to kick off.

Maybe say to him you have saved some money for him. He probably knows that he is bad with money so giving him a chunk of money might help explain it.

Explain that you want to continue so that he can buy, whatever, a car, clothes, a holiday?

The age makes no difference really. Its about his understanding.

About the fact he wont understand why I was taking house keeping from him. And how i did it the way I did.

Ideally I would like to continue. But that won't happen he just wants everything now he wont think good idea I can get everything for my home i wont habe to worry about sitting there with no carpets/flooring etc .

I would just come clean. You are his appointee so there for you have control over the money and what it’s spent on. He needed to pay towards bills.

Both my DD’s are on PIP and I take a part of the money to go towards keep (food, bills, fuel money etc…). I have agreed to come off as appointee for my eldest and for the money to go into her account but PIP have now suspended her payments so they can access if she’s capable of handling her own finances. She probably isn’t fully capable but I am done with being made to feel like I’m controlling her. Since coming off she’s not paid any keep (because it’s suspended). I don’t think she has any idea how much her PIP actually is as I have been just paying it into her account weekly, she knows I take some for keep.

If he does kick off I would be tempted to step down as appointee and just let him get on with it.

All I’m saying is I would have told him regardless, I’m aware our children are different but now you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. For the record DS can be aggressive not necessarily towards me, but he has terrible mood swings but I will always relay what I’m spending his money on.

I understand where you are coming from but I did what kept me safe at the time. I wasn't willing to get myself hurt . Or my other children to be effected by it.

The social worker at the time did confirm its a form of domestic violence. Sadly its not always recognised or taken seriously because it child to parent violence.

I had a friend who's mother withheld her Pip & UC in similar ways, she was bipolar and couldn't manage her money at all and almost impulsively spent it as soon as she had it so her mother became her apointee.

All was fine until my friend met someone else who was also in the same circumstances and realised she had been getting far less. She started looking into it and realised her mother had only been giving her half the money.

It did not go in the mother's favour. I can only go by what my friend has said but her mother's bank statements were inspected and it was confirmed that she had been spending on things that were not for her daughter, holidays, cosmetic procedures etc. The mother was prosecuted.

I don't agree with this myself but apparently PIP is not supposed to be used towards general living costs and bills and is to be used towards things that are linked to their disability. So a non disabled person would still need to pay rent and have food, clothing etc and would use their UC for that whereas their PIP should be used for things directly linked to their disability, such as transport, aids, therapy etc.

I think in an ideal situation social services should have been in charge of her finances but unfortunately she now has no contact with her mother and her mother has a criminal record. I hope you've kept records of what you've spent his money on OP, I don't think you've done this maliciously but should be wish to investigate this further it could cause you quite a lot of problems if you cannot backup your claims to where you've spent his money.

I do add that I don't think her mother intentionally did this but just got carried away when looking at her bank balance and buying/booking things without realising it wasn't actually her money.

Thats very odd. I spoke to pip when he first started getting it. I actually called the Freud side of it .I asked if it was OK to use it for things like electric. Replacing things hes broken/smashed up etc. And for his general house keeping . I was told its fine . Its stuff hes using/needs it.

Im not worried at all about that. I have nothing to hide.

It sounds like the other person's parent wasn't using it appropriately ive been told its OK to use ds money to pay the spare room supplement on the house we live in because technically the boys can share except he can't he really really can't

Yeah that makes sense. Mine could easy be checked ds pip gos into my main account. I then transfer the part i give ds to him. Then the rest i put into my other account. Then when I need to pay some of a bill or sone of the food shop and that sort of thing I transfer it back to my main account in order to make the payment. I find it easier like that so ut doesn't get lost within my money. Or I probably could accidentally spend it without realising.

Recently though I have been leaving it in my other account because hes not been here. So he has a small amount of money saved. Which is good .

@Pipanger I totally agree. I'll switch to he now because my friend is female. The argument was it was fine to be used to replace things he had broken or if he has equipment related to his condition that will require extra costs which would require extra electricity.

But things like general utilities unless he has equipment that needs that extra energy are general household costs which would be there regardless and groceries for the household couldn't be included as whether he was disabled or not he would still need food.

My friends mother claimed these things but her bank statements didn't back it up, her accounts showed outgoings higher than her personal incomings for things so it was deemed she was spending her daughter's money.

Like I said I'm sure you've not done anything deliberately but I will say it's imperative that you have evidence of what you've spent his money on and can clearly document with receipts why and where the money has gone. For example you couldn't send a £100 grocery bill and claim that, as your entire household would be using those groceries.

That makes some sense ds was using extra electric. Because he would do his washing but wash the same clothes 3 times. Using extra washing pods. Cooking different meals at 2/3/4 am his Xbox /gaming pc /tv on all night .

My spending definitely isn't beyond my income

All this transferring between accounts sounds rather complicated, and I’m not sure it would be enough proof if you were ever investigated. I think you need proper records and receipts.

Also, shouldn’t “the small amount of money saved” be in an account in his name?

I'm sure what you are doing is all above board, but you need to document it.

I find it easier how im doing it . If I do t do it that way I could loose his money within my money.

Bank statements can be looked at there will be receipts/documents within my emails. I never ever use cash . Everything i do can be tracked /looked into

I’m sure bank statements are good - I’m just suggesting keeping a list of expenses, with dates. Much easier than having to do this retrospectively if there was an investigation.

I think the pp who suggested you get a letter stating entitlement rather than record of payments is the way forward here.

I don't think there's a black and white answer to this but OP it does sound like the situation had become untenable and you cannot go back to him staying with you the way he was. I think you need to sit down with his social worker one to one to talk about this and the money management but in all honesty, I'm not sure it's a good idea for you to continue being his sole appointee in this way with him being abusive and violent towards you. In an ideal world the social worker would help convince him to let you save on his behalf, but long term its still not teaching him anything, he still won't have a grasp on how much money is being held for him and it actually puts you at further risk of him coming and badgering you to give him money which could end up putting you in danger when he's blown through it and doesn't understand it's done. I think he needs to be back in charge of his money and you need to talk to the social worker about what you actually can and cannot do moving forwards and then stick to it. But I do think you've left yourself in a bit of a vulnerable position with this and you could be accused of theft/financial abuse of a vulnerable adult so I think it's better you go to the social worker directly. I can understand why you've done what you've done but I think this is something you need to cut the cord on. There might be fallout but that's the reality of your situation and it sounds like you've done a huge amount for your son over the years. I think the only way to fix this is to be honest and hope social services can help you navigate it from there. Are you receiving any support dealing with this? Counselling/ support from his social worker etc?

I’m a mental health nurse and i deal with PIP applications frequently- what you have done , ie taking his PIP without his knowledge is a safeguarding issue.

If you were struggling for money there are other options- but taking his PIP regardless of the circumstances is exploitation.

That is a fact - not up for debate depending upon how you view your behaviour.