Westminstenders: The Non-Pact Pact

[RedToothBrush]

The Brexit Party and the Conservatives have agreed a trumpian pact to no deal. Led by the ERG.

They don't want you to know its a pact because the Conservatives still want One Nation Conservatives types to believe they are still One Nation Conservatives, simply because they say they are. They are not.

The Brexit Party won't stand any candidates in a Conservative held seat. But don't be surprised if there isn't more Non-Pact tactical stepping aside. This of course won't be a Pact. Cos the Brexit Party say its not. And the Conservative Party say its not.

The Liberal Democrats, Plaid and the Greens are in an electoral pact. They say they are in an electoral pact and have published a list.

Meanwhile the Labour Party isn't in a Pact. But there is still talk that in key seats that someone (either the LDs or Labour) should stand aside to try and deseat key Conservatives. This won't happen because the Lib Dems and Labour are not in a pact. And when they say they are not in a pact they aren't.

If after an election we have a hung parliament then either the Conservatives or Labour who are not in a pact and say they will never be in a pact, will try and woo someone to a kingmaker and be in government with them, probably on a supply and demand basis rather than coalition. They'll deny this but we kind of know how this goes...

tobee

"I get that it can’t be changed now but discussing it is no more pointless than berating everything BJ does."

With hair on fire, I want to think only of tackling that first
Then tackle having pneumonia
but until the fire is out, I wouldn't even bother thinking about the pneumonia

Hard Brexit = hair on fire
Corbyn = pneumonia

"the most dangerous man in Britain"
.... only until Starmer or anyone else takes the leadership - and the title !

Corbyn is a lazy dimwit who accidentally stumbled from deserved backbench obscurity into being party leader

The PLP are 80-90% Remainer, so wouldn't allow any radical policies
and Labour would be dependent on C & S with other parties anyway

Then here’s another fun citation: 172 - 40.

That’s 172 Labour MPs who voted No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, versus just 40 who supported him

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-loses-no-confidence-vote-among-labour-mps-by-176-to-40-a7107826.html

Diane Abbott proclaimed it “a landslide victory for Jeremy”

Then I don't see how Corbyn can be blamed for their irrational thinking

Perhaps not... but that doesn’t change the fact they think the way they do!

Of course, just as irrational Leavers refuse to let go of the Brexit lie. However, unlike Leavers, I am hopeful that these life-long labour voters will start to come to their senses as they realise the full horror of a Johnson victory compared to the hope offered by a Labour government.

it is no more pointless than berating everything BJ does

But everything Johnson does is so beratable (if that's a word). Literally everything he does and says is idiotic or reprehensible. And that's just the stuff we currently know about...there's an ocean of sewage just below the tip of the fatberg

"It’s a side issue for left-wing political obsessives."

I'm a centrist

I don't normally give a FUCK about one party or the other

I have sometimes voted Liberal, then LDem, but not when they've been too flaky or disgusting:
I grew up with Jeremy Thorpe as Liberal leader for several years,
then there was the tolerance of abuse by Cyril Smith even at public Liberal events,
then umpteen other horrors until we get to choosing Aimee Challoner and refusing GC feminists

My "obsession" is what for decades has been key Liberal and then LDem policies:

• a close relationship with the EU
• preserving the basics of the post-1945 social contract - the welfare state & NHS

I care about stopping a very hard or even No Deal Brexit
I care about stopping a hard right Tory rolling back workers rights and the welfare state, destroying the NHS, flooding the UK with substandard US meat products that only the less well off would eat

Swinson's policy of standing against even moderate Labour Remainers is going to let the Tories win some seats
red can think of 2 in the NW; we've all heard of the most recent ones elsewhere

No, I won't forgive or forget a leader that puts party before both country and its own core principles
I hope Swinson's constituents punish her for this

We saw in 2010 how the LDems put getting their snouts in the govt trough ahead of their principles
In 2019 they are abandoning the country's interests too, in order to get maybe 23 MPs instead of 20

": 172 - 40."

which is why Corbyn is not dangerous ... and BJ is

The Tory party has been taken over and / or cowed by the hard right Brexiters
Labour MPs are still 80-90% moderate Remainers

The Lib Dem candidate for High Peak was on the BBCs North West regional news at 6.30pm tonight. He said he would not be all out campaigning because he felt that in the constituency you'd be better off voting Labour to keep the Tories out, from a Remain point of view.

The late 10.30pm news revealed that he'd been ditched by the party and they were intending to replace him as a candidate.

Tbh I have more time for any candidate who is straight out honest about it.

I don’t think Jeremy Corbyn is a great leader, I do believe that the Labour Party would be ahead with a different leader, but the most dangerous man in the country is magic grandpa, really?

@BigChocFrenzy

I broadly agree with most of what you’ve written. I have no particular love for the LDs and haven’t voted for them in a GE since 2005, and haven’t decided who I will vote for this time. However, I do believe their decision in Canterbury was the right one, and that the benefits outweigh the risks for them as a party and the Remain cause in general. I don’t believe it is likely to impact on the result for the reasons I’ve given earlier in the thread.

BBC newsnight @bbcnewsnight
“He [David Gauke] is still a Brexiteer by choice.”

President of the Lib Dems, Baroness @SalBrinton, says the Lib Dems will stand against the former justice secretary David Gauke in South West Hertfordshire, as he has “not quite got to a Remain position”

#Newsnight

This puritanical bullshit has pissed me off for a long time. This really isn't helping. Especially when there are remain Labour MPs who aren't good enough either.

This isn't about the national interest.

Remain needed to build bridges with soft leavers....

Honestly every time I see ideological puritanical bullshit it turns me off a party even more

Guy Kiddey @guykiddey
I have heard that the #LibDems are looking for a new candidate for #HighPeak. They might have told me directly rather than leave it to unsuspecting journalists to break the news. No contrition, no apologies. A great disappointment.

Well 172 is a lot less people than 313,209. Anyone help me out as to how many less? I'm really bad at maths.

“not quite got to a Remain position”

It's like religious purity
We need pragmatism

How does Grieve's face fit and not Gauke ?
Bigger star factor ?

I'd always leave such decisions to the local candidate

• if they don't want to stand down, it's terrible politics to try to force them

However, when they do want to stand down in favour of an ex-Lab or ex-Con,
it means giving up their own chance to be MP, so they would have to have thought very hard about this and be very sure it gives the best chance for Remain

So it's terrible politics to cast aside that candidate and that sacrifice too

Of course the Tories are cheering on Swinson & LDem HQ - it makes it likely they'll get more MPs !

tobee The important thing is that neither party leader could do anything drastic as PM if their MPs blocked them

However, the Tory party and its MPs have been taken over by the hard right Brexiters and will vote solidly for BJ, as we have seen in the recent HoC votes,

whereas Labour MPs are still 80-90% moderate & Remainers and have shown they will vote overwhelmingly against Corbyn

Well exactly.

It's ironic that those figures probably please both Just and Cendrillon. Because to Just it means Labour have Corbyn. And to Cendrillon it means Labour have Corbyn.

tobee

Well 172 is a lot less people than 313,209. Anyone help me out as to how many less? I'm really bad at maths.

You are really bad at maths, because each of those 172 Labour MPs won the votes of tens of thousands of voters in a General Election, and represent many ten of thousands more if you include the entire electorate of their constituencies. So that famed 313,209 is tiny by comparison.

It is the voters which give MPs their power and whom they should represent to their best judgement

The number of members who voted for the party leader should not affect that

This made me chuckle - it would regardless of party:

don't be a shit to your wife !

whereas Labour MPs are still 80-90% moderate & Remainers and have shown they will vote overwhelmingly against Corbyn

Sorry, but this is nonsense. By now, the remaining Labour MPs are broken, with all the fight gone out of them. The few serious rebels have quit, and even Tom Watson is gone. The remaining MPs, cowed by Momentum and the Twitter mob, will vote to make Corbyn PM and pass whatever far-left bullshit he desires. You can pretend otherwise, but you know it's true.

The "i" also makes the important point that a snap GE means less time for party scrutiny of new candidates

• especially those that Swinson decides to stand at 1 day notice !

We could find the next HoC has a higher than average number of sex pests, MPs who get convicted of perjury, or even have convictions,
those expressing racist, homophobic or misogynist views etc

"the remaining Labour MPs are broken"

That's the bullshit
They are as bolshy as ever, but have mostly stuck together to try to stop Brexit and now to stop a Tory win.

e.g. Corbyn is a lifelong Lexiter, but his MPs recently forced him to agreeing to a PV with Remain

In contrast, BJ's majority dropped to -45 because his moderate MPs don't trust him, but don't have the numbers to stop him

We've seen how 22 Tories felt they had to quit the Whip - joining the earlier Tigger Tories - because they couldn't stop BJ
He only invited back the ones who crawled

We've seen frmer Cabinet ministers quit the Tories

Some MPs of both main parties are standing down because of the stress, but it is the Tory Parliamentary Party which has been taken over by their extremes

The remaining Labour MPs are broken? Lol

The remaining Labour MPs are broken? Lol

Done those calculations yet?

And of course absolutely no Tory MPs have stood down or defected.