Westminstenders: The Non-Pact Pact

[RedToothBrush]

The Brexit Party and the Conservatives have agreed a trumpian pact to no deal. Led by the ERG.

They don't want you to know its a pact because the Conservatives still want One Nation Conservatives types to believe they are still One Nation Conservatives, simply because they say they are. They are not.

The Brexit Party won't stand any candidates in a Conservative held seat. But don't be surprised if there isn't more Non-Pact tactical stepping aside. This of course won't be a Pact. Cos the Brexit Party say its not. And the Conservative Party say its not.

The Liberal Democrats, Plaid and the Greens are in an electoral pact. They say they are in an electoral pact and have published a list.

Meanwhile the Labour Party isn't in a Pact. But there is still talk that in key seats that someone (either the LDs or Labour) should stand aside to try and deseat key Conservatives. This won't happen because the Lib Dems and Labour are not in a pact. And when they say they are not in a pact they aren't.

If after an election we have a hung parliament then either the Conservatives or Labour who are not in a pact and say they will never be in a pact, will try and woo someone to a kingmaker and be in government with them, probably on a supply and demand basis rather than coalition. They'll deny this but we kind of know how this goes...

They are as bolshy as ever, but have mostly stuck together to try to stop Brexit and now to stop a Tory win.

And if they win, will they make Corbyn PM and implement his socialist manifesto? A simple yes or no will do.

Stella Creasy and David Lammas don’t look very broken to me. Nor Jon Ashworth or John McDonnell or Jess Phillips.

You do it for me Cend.

If you ever remember any of my posts you'd know I'm not happy about Corbyn leading Labour. But I'd rather vote for him many, many times over Johnson.

Yep, Jess Philips looks broken to me Come off it!

And don't forget that there has been an election since the Labour leadership vote and voters have returned Labour MPs not withstanding Corbyn being re elected

Stella Creasy and David Lammas don’t look very broken to me. Nor Jon Ashworth or John McDonnell or Jess Phillips.

Yep, Jess Philips looks broken to me grin Come off it!

So if Labour wins the election, will they make Corbyn PM and pass his manifesto into law? It’s a simple question.

Quite likely

You can pretend otherwise, but you know it's true.

You can spout that endlessly but you can't make it true.

What d'ya reckon? Will Tories make Johnson PM and pass his manifesto and fantastic deal into law?

Quite likely

Thank you. Then at that point there are no “moderate” Labour MPs, no centrists, no rebels. They’ll make him PM and pass whatever socialist bullshit he puts in his manifesto. They will all be Corbynites then.

So if Labour wins the election, will they make Corbyn PM and pass his manifesto into law? It’s a simple question.

Of course they will implement the manifesto there would be no point in winning otherwise, would there? Corbyn would automatically become PM in the event of a Labour majority.

How does Grieve's face fit and not Gauke? Bigger star factor ?

There’s a significant difference..... Gauke voted for BJ’s deal (and TM’s deal 3 times), whereas Grieve did not.. If anyone is being indulgent here, it’s Gauke.

And I write as someone who has previously voted for Gauke (I used to live in his constituency) and would do again in preference to the LD candidate, but the LDs have a point.

This concept seems to be shocking to you Cendrillon. But it works like that both ways I think you'll find

BJ has been sacked twice for lying
but got away with discussing having a journalist beaten up

He may yet be prosecuted for the Arcuri scandal
and then there is the Russian dossier he squashed until after the GE ...

The Mirror lists 43 of his lies and serious gaffes

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/37-lies-gaffes-scandals-make-18558695

The manifesto may be shocking to Tories - and it's not all to my taste either - but few Labour MPs would genuinely disagree with that manifesto

They are a Labour Party, always have been
"Tax the rich to help the poor"

It's a bog-standard socialist manifesto, that could have run any time since the 1930s
(except any social liberal bits about gay rights etc)

You can hardly expect Thatcherism
or watered-down Thatcherism a la Blair

Disingenuous af, considering the Lib Dems are now full of Tories who voted for Brexit every time under May

No, locally the party is becoming a broad church, picking up people from left and right, joining people who have been with the party for years.

Labour and the Tories used to be broad churches, but have now moved towards the extremes.

Except on Brexit where it could be considered that a LibDem majority would be extreme

I don't generally agree with oakenbeach but she is completely right on the Grieve/ Gauke distinction.

Grieve unequivocally supports a P.V. Gauke supports getting brexit done - any brexit that isn't no deal at this moment in time (worry about the end of transition later) he is not a remain option and people for whom remain is a priority should not be voting for him.

It's not about the Lib Dems demanding ideological purity - it's about the fact that Gauke currently stands for something they disagree with whilst Grieve doesn't.

Probably my issue with the LDems is that I have always wanted the centre party to cooperate with other moderates,

but they seem to have turned into a puritan Remain party

And of course I am massively pissed at excluding GC feminists while appointing someone like AImee Challoner as diversity officer

• and blocking tweets since July that warned of her partner's public paedophile fantasies & asked for investigations

This is all too reminiscent of past serious Liberal scandals when they shut down people instead of investigating.

They are puritanical about the wrong bloody things

Tories offer Nigel Farage eleventh-hour deal

We have until 4pm today (Thursday) before we can know all the candidates standing

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/13/tories-offer-nigel-farage-eleventh-hour-deal/

The Conservatives have offered an electoral pact to Nigel Farage that would mean the Brexit Party targeting just 40 key seats,
The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Boris Johnson was prepared to put up “paper candidates” in the Labour-held constituencies,

meaning the Tories would carry out only minimal campaigning in order to give an advantage to Brexit Party rivals.

However, the deal was turned down by Mr Farage, who had insisted on the Tories withdrawing their candidates altogether from the seats,
because he was worried that the Conservative candidates would still attract votes.

Talks finally broke down late on Tuesday
but as the deadline for nominations approaches at 4pm on Thursday, Mr Farage remains under intense pressure to make further concessions
beyond the 317 candidates he has already stood down from running in seats won by the Tories in 2017.

Farage is right about one thing:
Even "paper" candidates attract some votes

Same even if the LDems chose paper candidates, which in fact they don't seem to intend.

However, maybe the LDems won't be able to find candidates by 4pm who have a spare 500 quid for the deposit and signatures of 10 eligible voters in their constituency.

I'm sorry, 120,000 people have died avoidably due to Tory policy and Corbyn is the dangerous one? Come again?

I am personally seeing these deaths at work now. We all are. It's fucking grim. How many people are sleeping on your street corner now?

If you're rich, want to remain so, and happy that people are dying around you to maintain this, by all means vote for them, but have the grace to own the reasons why.

Eurgh, I may have to take a break from this thread.

The "i" also makes the important point that a snap GE means less time for party scrutiny of new candidates

Of all the elections the UK has ever held, this is possibly the least "snap" of them all. The second Boris bounced into office it was expected, and when he explicitly ruled it out in early September it was guaranteed.

However, maybe the LDems won't be able to find candidates by 4pm who have a spare 500 quid for the deposit and signatures of 10 eligible voters in their constituency.

I admit I am intrigued as to how they are going to do this in Canterbury when the local party members are all pissed off.

Finding a new candidate and £500 is the easy part. It's the nominee signatures that is difficult for LD HQ. Without the cooperation of local parties, Sal will be on the phone ringing every party member in the constituency herself in the hope she can find 10 none active members willing to do it....