The Brexit Arms

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Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!
Go BoJo!

So near & yet so far..............

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Mystery - what line of work are you in?

mystery However, democracy is only preserved when majority vote is honoured.
Nonsense. That is your version of democracy - one that seems to think too much voting is anti-democratic
There's been a lot of water under the bridge since June 2016. People have a better understanding of Brexit and its pitfalls and should be offered a new referendum. Anyone would think Leavers are worried that joe public no longer wants this and are scared of putting it to the test.

That is your version of democracy

Respect for majority vote is democracy.

people have a better understanding of Brexit and its pitfalls and should be offered a new referendum

Majority of MPs are remain supporters, but they ruled out another referendum. If confident that voters have changed their minds why did they do that?

Anyone would think Leavers are worried that joe public no longer wants this and are scared of putting it to the test

Opposition parties are afraid to put it to the test. That’s why they voted against a general election as well. A general election tomorrow would produce one of the following outcomes;

Conservative majority, or

Brexit and Conservative coalition.

If opposition are confident they would win an election why have they blocked?

Mystery - what line of work are you in

Legal and arbitration

Consulting

Stock market

If a "temporary" customs union were agreed why would the EU ever agree to a FTA alternative?

Sorry Howabout, was out.

It would need to be time limited obvs for that reason - a definitive end date.

It would create a scenario little different to now whereby no-deal is default (with all that comes with re Ireland & NI) but will give time to discuss serious solutions instead of them being muddled into & enmeshed with WA as it is now.

"However, democracy is only preserved when majority vote is honoured."

Nonsense. That is your version of democracy

😂😂😂

Twofingers - Losers consent is a fundamental part of our democracy in the UK

No matter how much you think the losing vote should win 🙄

Respect for majority vote is democracy.

If the campaign was illegally funded and based on mid-information? And if the vote was dressed up as advisory only to then, in effect, be legally binding (gets round the first point, eh?) then in my opinion it’s questionable at best if that represents democracy.

It’s just my opinion, many might share it, but just like your opinion it goes to show that no one person has all the answers like you seem to think you do.

Here’s another opinion: I think democracy is respecting the rule of law. Many would also agree with that. Given that this is a fairly widely view, has our PM behaved in a way that strengthens democracy? He’s obviously eroding it, isn’t he?

He hasn't broken any law as far as I'm aware

He hasn’t respected it though, has he?

What a great example.

@lonleycrab

If result of the referendum was a result of illegal activity why did government not declare the referendum void?

Referendum became binding when 498 MPs voted to invoke Article 50.

I think democracy is respecting the rule of law

EU law (Article 50) allows no deal. Remember that it is EU law that defines how a member can leave EU. UK law does not prevent UK from leaving EU.

Watch question time broadcast 25 September 2019. Gina Miller was on the panel and she acknowledged that if Johnson prorogated parliament again within the law she would not object.

Law does not dictate how people should vote. Therefore law cannot overturn the results of a vote.

They couldn't declare it null and void because it was only an advisory referendum. Y'know, that law thing you claim to know about.

By voting for A50 they declared their acceptance that Brexit had a mandate

From that point the 'but it was advisory!' wailing lost all weight as a point of argument.

What we are seeing at the moment is the final play of Remain extremists

Once we have signed a WA (not necessarily the current WA) or have reached no agreement then the conversation moves on.

The Remain extremists can then start a campaign to rejoin

If we end up with an agreement which is not the no-deal that Farage et al want then I'm sure they'll continue their campaign too

The majority in the middle (both leave & remain voters) will be able to get on with sorting out the future relationship

I'm just explaining why it couldn't be declared null and void. I accept that once A50 was triggered the decision was unstoppable. The referendum, however, could not be declared null and void because of its status.

Who are these Remainer extremists. Are you including people like me in that. Just because I despise No Deal and think we must do everything to stop No Deal.

If result of the referendum was a result of illegal activity why did government not declare the referendum void?

How could they? too many big names involved, Tory govt seeks to bring corruption charges against 1/2 their MPs ... nah!

also, would mean admitting that the UK couldn't run a simple referendum.

The Swiss Govt recently overturned a referendum result, declaring it bad for Switzerland.
Thats what we should have done.

Cameron however, made a very bad decision even worse by declaring the result would be honoured (so we couldn't) he had no right to do that as he had no idea how to leave the EU, so resigned.

As for "losers consent" i've never heard of that phrase before, surely it means no need for an official opposition doesn't it?

Who are these Remainer extremists.

People who will not countenance anything other than remain

Are you including people like me in that.

No, because you have consistently said you'd be ok with Brexit so long as it was done in a sensible way

As for "losers consent" i've never heard of that phrase before, surely it means no need for an official opposition doesn't it?

It's the foundation of our democracy.

The losers in every vote consent to go with the majority verdict

It literally happens every single election

Then, @DustyDiamond why aren't you focusing on working with people like me instead of whining about the decreasing number of "extremists ".

The UK population is too thick and pig headed to try and rejoin the EU, they'd rather see the economy fail, their own living standards fall than admit they were wrong.

You see it on every single brexit thread and FB page, problems are always nothing to do with brexit, remoaners fault or the EU bullies!

It'll be a generation plus before there would be any serious rejoin attempt, possibly why remainers are still passionate about remaining.

The losers in every vote consent to go with the majority verdict

No they don't or they'd be no opposition.

Like i said, never heard of it before you talked about it.

Then, @DustyDiamond why aren't you focusing on working with people like me instead of whining about the decreasing number of "extremists ".

I am not an MP in Parliament
Are you?

I have written to my MP more than once (I've said this to you before, several times)

Like i said, never heard of it before you talked about it.

Countless books on the subject surrounding this

I can't help it if you choose not to be informed

It is a fundamental component of a functioning democracy

Literally happens every single election in this country

The losers consent to the majority verdict & allow the majority verdict to be enacted by giving them consent to form a govt

This is an analysis of the type of 'loser' in a democracy

Those who refuse to accept the legitimacy of losers consent are more emotionally driven for example.

This can be applied to both Remain extremists (do not accept Brexit or the ref result at all), and also to hard-Brexiters (do not accept a softer Brexit at all & will not concede to the majority who would prefer a deal over no deal)

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/losers-consent-brexit/