Can you just put someone in a care home?

[elderlyparentone]

Blunt title. But DM (not elderly) is caring for DF (in 80s - big age gap). He has Parkinson’s plus many other things, including mild dementia. But he is mobile, can mostly go to the toilet by himself but does have some accidents. This seems to be the main problem. He doesn’t speak much, which is partly the condition, partly he’s always been a bit of a silent miserable bastard. He has previously had carers short term when he had an accident and broke a bone. DM has suddenly decided she can’t cope and wants to put him in a care home. I feel like maybe carers is a good middle step. But she feels this won’t help her, because carers won’t be predictable and she can’t leave him sitting in mess if he’s had a toilet accident.

Is it even possible to just put someone in a home? I feel that might be the worst place for him and we should at least try carers for a while.

They own their house, she has more savings, he has a small amount (around 10k). He has a pension they both live off. I understand half of his pension will be used to fund care, but they can’t fully self fund a full time care home. So will that mean he’s in a shitty home? Would they even take him when he doesn’t really seem to need it? What if she just refuses to help him anymore?

Struggling with how to navigate this. It seems like a sudden reaction, but I know she finds it hard and it’s all on her. I am an hour away, full time job, kids (toddler and primary school aged). Brother fucked off overseas. Apologies if this all sounds hard hearted, it’s a lot harder to deal with this stage than I’d anticipated.

It will impact her financially he will lose his monthly income and depending on their will he may need to give half his share of house proceeds after they pass . I'm sure your mother may have to pay a small top as well . My mother is in similar position with dad he has dementia. Care and respite really is a nightmare . Their is new legislation in which care costs can be covered if it's a medical need rather than a social need. Carers are useless they won't give your mum the respite she needs they are in amd out for 20 mins at a time and couple of times a day at a hefty cost .

I think when u have parents with age gap this is somewhat normal . My mum feels held back by Dad I think as she feels she using her twilight years being a full time carer not easy is it

If he doesn't want to go and is mentally competent then no she can't
Also if SS is to find it then they will try and avoid that as much as possible so unless she is prepared to just stop and see him get into an awful situation then it probably won't happen. She could try to leave him at a Hospital but if he owns the house they will probably just take him home anyway

Unless it's self funded then carers 4 times a day usually has to be shown to be unsafe first.

It's not quite that simple.
However, if your mum is struggling with caring for your dad and feels that she can't safely care for him even with support from carers it will not be the worst option.
Bear in mind that she is dealing with this everyday.

Does your dad have capacity to make a decision himself?
Have they visited any care homes?

Not really.

if the person has what is called capacity - ie they are able to decide for themselves then in general the answer is no.

if they don’t have capacity - for example have dementia and don’t know who or where they are t any of the people around them - then if there is enough money to self fund a care home then the next of kin /people with power of attorney can arrange it.

if they don’t have capacity and cannot afford it then the next of kin can request a care assessment from social services but care homes are more expensive than home care so home care is usually preferred unless the needs are really high

If he has capacity, then no and as others have said SS will not fund it until 4 x carer visit a day has proved inadequate. I would recommend looking at the Age UK website for more clarity on how it is all funded, so you are all prepared if the time comes when he loses capacity. But if DM is over 60 they can't make her sell the house, if she is reliant on his pension some of that can be kept for her but the rest would go towards his fees. It doesn't sound as if he needs nursing care but even if he did it needs to be at an EXTREMELY high level to get full funding, it is a difficult assessment process.

What DMum could be doing is looking at applying for Attendance Allowance if she is carrying out personal care.

Agree with posters saying look at the advice sheets on age uk they give a comprehensive overview of how all this works. But it sounds like he would not be self funded so social services would have to agree that he needs care quite apart from his own opinion.

I think you need to take onboard her wishes and his, is he able to make known any wishes? Can you spend a few days with them? It’s really tough.

My DMum has Parkinson’s, carers coming in are very hit and miss, turning up at different times, different carers. Your DM Is right about being left to sit soiled - for hours.

could they afford live in care?

Carers aren't going to help if he gets up during the night either.

I think if your Mum is the main carer, and you can't do much, then you're going to have to support her with this. He'll need to be assessed by social work.

Care homes vary quite a lot - if she starts looking now she'll hopefully get a nice place for him.

Even if she decides not to go for a home now, it's handy to research for the future.

We put my mum in a care home. She had dementia and although she was active and very with it moment by moment, she had a shorter memory span than a goldfish and a toddler's stubbornness at believeing she coud or had the right to do things that were dangerous. We had the whole town out looking for her on more than one occasion. The gas had to be turned off. The local shopkeeper had to pretend she would drop mum's shopping round later, because she went in six times a day and asked for the same foods. The jobs and families of our own, none of us could reasonably cope with her. She needed entertaining all day long.

So although she didn't choose to go into a home, she was happier there - joining in with the art classes and fitness and gardening and cooking and singing - always lots of people on hand to interact with her. She thrived there for many years.

She was a lovely person and any of us would happily have looked after her if it were possible, but she could have wandered off, in an unfamiliar place and got into serious danger if we turned our backs for five minutes.

I feel rather sorry for your mum. My dad was diagnosed with COPD and didn’t really look after himself properly afterwards so the disease progressed much quicker than it needed to have done. By his late sixties, he’d pretty much taken to his armchair while mum waited on him hand and foot. She hardly went out because dad would fall over his oxygen tank or have a ‘panic attack’ after half an hour.

Dad died a few years ago and mum was diagnosed with Parkinson’s not long after. She spent from her early sixties to her late seventies being a carer and now she can’t do the things she wanted to in her retirement. It seems very unfair.

I don’t blame your mum for wanting to have a life for herself rather than be forced into the role of carer.

I think with the health issues, if he hadn’t always been a “silent miserable bastard” your DM might have been happier to care for him herself? Maybe as she’s not elderly herself, she’s looking at her life and this isn’t what she wants for the rest of it. Finances and practicalities aside, what did he expect, if that’s how he’s always been.

The only way she can 'put him in a care home' is (a) he either has capacity and agrees, or he doesn't have capacity but she has health & welfare POA and (b) he has the money to fund it. Then it would be fairly straightforward.

He doesn't have the money to fund it, he only has £10k in savings and you only self-fund if you have over £23k. Her savings are not taken into account. So your mother would need to get Social Services to do a needs assessment, and they will inevitably offer carers coming in 4 times a day before they think about a care home.

I feel very sorry for your mum who is doing the care, and I don't blame her for not wanting to provide incontinence care, I wouldn't do it.

So the first step is finding the number for Adult Social Services for his area, calling them for a needs assessment, and accepting what they offer. Which sadly probably won't be much but they need to get the process started.

She can also contact the GP and ask to be put in touch with a continence care advisor

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/living-with-dementia/continence-aids-professional-support

Care visits are absolutely no respite at all, and even if you are scheduled for 4 (the max) it seems like are lucky to get 2/3 turning up and at odd times as well. Don’t sentence your DM to spend the rest of her life in 24 hour slavery, support her to move your DF into care - he will only go downhill from here, and the sooner you do it, the more chance he has of adapting and maybe even thriving in a structured environment.

Would she consider divorcing him and splitting the equity in the family home now? I think that is her only way out.

When you say "we" are you going to be going round to change him when it's 4 hours to the next carer's visit?

Because really you mean her, and it's bloody hard.

Ultimately though she would probably need to abandon him to get him residential care paid by the state, and even then it's not guaranteed. "They" do think it's acceptable to leave an adult sitting in their own waste until the next carer visit.

I would never judge anyone for not wanting to be the full time carer of someone, if that’s what your Mother wants support her unless you are offering to take over.

You live an hour away so not their for daily help and being rude about your brother won’t make you feel any better.
This is a lot for your mother and may be the first time she has mentioned it to you but I can safely say not the first time she has felt the need for change .

Depends if he wants to. It is not easy to show loss of capacity either I'm afraid.
Unfortunately even though you have the right not to be anyone's carer, if you live with them, you cannot really avoid it, even with carers coming in.
It's such a difficult situation.
As others have said, raise a safeguarding concern with Adult Social Care, and ask he be assessed with a carers assessment for DM.
Until things go badly south if he doesn't elect to go into care and self fund, there's going to be little help. Sorry.

She's not obliged to be a carer.

How about he comes and lives with you with carers visiting and you doing all the other caring responsibilies in the other 23 hours of the day. Happy with that? No didn't think so.

This is her other option.

Have they applied for attendance allowance. His pension and aa go towards the carehome fees. Social services can arrange a care assessment, that's the first step if he wants to go into a care home. Would they have a financial assessment as they both own the house, would she sell up and downsize to help towards the costs. No, you can't just put someone in a home unless it's a serious safeguarding or mental,health concern. She can refuse to look after him, arrange carers and take herself off for respite care herself, how old is she.

Thanks I’ll check out AgeUK.

She’s early 60s. I don’t know if she’d consider divorce. Maybe I’ll have to float that idea. She didn’t for the rest of their 40 year marriage, even though I’d say their relationship wasn’t wonderful and as I said he’s always been a bit of a miserable old git since I was a baby. I don’t know if she could actually, because she does rely on his pension. It all seems very complicated.

I am aware it’s awful to be in this situation and I know she is struggling a lot. I’d love to help more but practically it’s very difficult.

They do receive attendance allowance