Can you just put someone in a care home?

[elderlyparentone]

Blunt title. But DM (not elderly) is caring for DF (in 80s - big age gap). He has Parkinson’s plus many other things, including mild dementia. But he is mobile, can mostly go to the toilet by himself but does have some accidents. This seems to be the main problem. He doesn’t speak much, which is partly the condition, partly he’s always been a bit of a silent miserable bastard. He has previously had carers short term when he had an accident and broke a bone. DM has suddenly decided she can’t cope and wants to put him in a care home. I feel like maybe carers is a good middle step. But she feels this won’t help her, because carers won’t be predictable and she can’t leave him sitting in mess if he’s had a toilet accident.

Is it even possible to just put someone in a home? I feel that might be the worst place for him and we should at least try carers for a while.

They own their house, she has more savings, he has a small amount (around 10k). He has a pension they both live off. I understand half of his pension will be used to fund care, but they can’t fully self fund a full time care home. So will that mean he’s in a shitty home? Would they even take him when he doesn’t really seem to need it? What if she just refuses to help him anymore?

Struggling with how to navigate this. It seems like a sudden reaction, but I know she finds it hard and it’s all on her. I am an hour away, full time job, kids (toddler and primary school aged). Brother fucked off overseas. Apologies if this all sounds hard hearted, it’s a lot harder to deal with this stage than I’d anticipated.

Does she get Carer's Allowance? Should be a straightfoward claim as he has AA and she's working age. It's a pittance but it means she'll get her NI contributions towards her State pension paid. It would also be worth looking into what that pension is likely to be.

If he goes into care his pension(s) and AA will go towards the cost with Social services paying for most of it. This is predicated on a needs assessment and his capacity to agree or otherwise and if he is found to have capacity to make the decision to stay at home, it won't be overridden.

I'm full time carer for my DH but I don't think it fair on the cared for as well as the carer to be reliant on someone who really doesn't want to do it as frankly it's a disaster waiting to happen, but this is quite a tricky situation and I think you need to be sounding out IRL advice before it deteriorates.

No need to have a go at your brother. You could have chosen to fuck off abroad too. He’s done nothing wrong.
Your mother chose to be with someone with a big age gap without perhaps thinking long term. Your frustration is misplaced.

I think you need to have a re-think about your feelings towards homes, your tone is very negative (putting him in a home, worst place for him etc). Have you ever visited one? My DF has been in two, one fairly basic in terms of facilities and one more luxurious (self-funding) but the care in both has been superb and they get to do loads of activities, have entertainers come in etc, go on trips out, he's far better off than he would have been at home with carers. My mum misses him but he is nearby and she can visit daily without the pressure of having to be the carer (I do al the official paperwork stuff). But DF agreed to it.

I would suggest starting to visit a few that take LA funding (there should be a list on the council website). Some allow day visits by prospective residents, or short stays for respite and you can nudge them towards staying that way.

I’m with @SmallTreeDeepRoots and Iheartmysmart

I watched my dad care for my mum who was an avid collector of obscure ailments the main one being a degenerative illness which usually kills quickly but she lived for 20 years with it before dying of something else entirely.

Mum refused all help - carers, respite, care home, hospice as “dad could do” and he went along with it all for a quiet life which in reality was no life at all. It was bloody awful to watch and he dropped dead with the stress of it all. Although we all did what we could the festering resentment and trauma of it all means the rest of us no longer speak.

The home she ultimately went into for a few months was really lovely and she was so well looked after. I’d honestly urge you to have a look at a few and ask round your community for suggestions. Mum’s wasn’t the fanciest or smartest but time and again we were told how happy families were with the care.

I'd start by asking adult social services for a care needs assessment.

Edit: typo

I really sympathise with your DM , my friend is in a similar situation caring for her DH who is also a miserable older man . He has Mental Capacity and refuses to go into a home even for respite . My friend has lost loads of weight , can’t sleep and is exhausted caring for her DH. He has a carer in the morning for personal care but refuses extra carers .
My friends DD has contacted adult social care as her mum can’t continue as she is. She’s also been in touch with AgeUk .
So in answer to your question OP , no you can’t just put someone in a care home. Unless the person agrees and your self funding .

It’s shocking isn’t it - if parents did it to babies it would rightly be considered neglect

Sorry to hijack but do people feel this is the same situation if you have a parent with dementia / incontinence issues and you are expected to be their sole carer (only child) abd they do not want to go into a home? I truly feel for your mum. Im expected to be carer for a parent who is currently only in fairly early stages of this, we had a bad relationship anyway, she is a very complex person and I truly cannot stand caring. Your poor mum, please support her wishes here.

It's definitely possible and perfectly reasonable. An elderly person (though less elderly than partner) cannot be expected to be able to physically and mentally and emotionally care for some with a life limiting and progressive disease like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's. Home carers can only come and do 15 minute slots.

Care homes are for this exact purpose. The person can be looked after 24/7. And their loved ones can focus on giving love and affection while knowing they are medically cared for.

Is that correct that half of his pension will be used to fund his care? Not 100%?

This is totally incorrect.
If DF has a private pension HALF will go towards his care, the other half will be kept back towards to upkeep of the house.
As long as DM is over 60, the house will not be counted towards care home fees, not now, and not after he has died. Your DM can stay in the house without being pressured to sell. Age UK have some very good fact sheets on financing care home fees.
If DM is really struggling, she could speak to ASC, and declare a breakdown of care, but then I would think the choice of care home placement may be limited

Nobody should be forced to be someone's carer. It's a hard job and even doing it voluntarily can really push carers to the edge. If your DM can't cope with it or doesn't want to then you need to respect her feelings.
I know it often falls on the other partner to be the carer in these situations but it's just not for everyone and it's not fair. I'd say you need to do whatever you can to support both of them through this but ultimately if there is nobody to care for him at home, then he needs outside help.

lf he already has dementia it won’t be long before a care home is the best alternative, and at that point the decision won’t be his. I assume he has a social worker through Adult Social Care?

LA funding doesn’t automatically mean a shitty care home, many care homes accommodate a combination of self funded and LA funded residents. It’s a question of finding the right fit for his needs.

Do read the Age UK guidance on funding care, it’s very important for your DM to understand how this will affect her. I don’t think she will be able to keep half his pension, for instance, but if she’s over 60 they won’t be able to take a jointly owned home into account.

You’re going to have to do some homework, people aren’t just placed in care homes these days, family members are expected to do the legwork to find the right one.

No it's not that simple. My MIL has Alzheimer's. My MIL does not have mental capacity, she lives alone with carers 4 times a day which SS say she needs. She's getting worse rapidly and is also partially incontinent. Her sons have POA for health and finances. In our opinions she's almost at the point she should be in a home but she doesn't want to go. She can't cook and clean, she's deaf almost, the house is filthy and run down even though we have organised a cleaner and gardener. She just sits on the sofa all day and won't leave the house. She refuses meals on wheels and lives on takeaways and chocolate and cigs bought from the shop next door. She has no life and is deeply depressed and flares up aggressively every few weeks, towards either the carers or her sons. She is still able to be on good behaviour in front of other people. Anyway, I am getting to the point which is that even though she legally doesn't have mental capacity she is allowed to make her own decisions financially and about her health. It's bonkers. SS have told us the only way this will change is them doing another assessment and then getting some kind of court order to state she isn't acting in her own best interests so others (family with POA and legal/medical people) can make decisions for her. I mean the woman is not showering and we regularly find shitty clothes down the side of her bed. So I think it has to be pretty bad before you're allowed to just 'put someone in a home'. She has almost burnt the house down forgetting a pizza in the oven and going to bed, she hid her handbag and accused the carers of stealing it. I think we are almost at the point the care company may withdraw care anyway, at which point it becomes a SS emergency I suppose. I hope you manage to help them and preserve your own sanity.

I don’t know if she could actually, because she does rely on his pension. It all seems very complicated.

If they divorced, it would be part of the asset pot to be split (as would any pension pot she has). A pension sharing order could potentially be an option.

If he isn’t self funding then he needs a care assessment from social services - from your description I would very much doubt they will fund residential care. Their assets (except house they live in) count as joint no matter whose account they are in and divided by 2, if under £23k and social care he needs will be funded but only if he meets their threshold for care

You can’t force someone who still has capacity. My MIL was adamant that she wouldn’t go into a home. My DH kind of ignored the fact that she had deteriorated and wasn’t safe because he was scared of going against her wishes. In the end, a district nurse admitted her to hospital and from there she went into a home.

If SS are going to have to pay then she is going to need to follow an assessment process, then try carers. Then if that fails a care home. It’s a tricky process, essentially she needs to allow the situation to fail. Which is really hard to do.

You’ll probably find he’s admitted to hospital at some point and she refuses to care for him anymore.

I thought you were assessed on assets in your own name and half of joint (excluding house if spouse lives there)? Not also on your spouse’s sole assets?

My parents are in the same position. My mum is utterly depressed and like a caged animal .. They have no private pension or savings .. My dad has limited use of his legs after a series of mini strokes .. he has a bed downstairs in their very small house .. he’s not even 80 and will probably live another 10 years .. no down stairs toilet just a commode which stinks the living room out .. It’s a dire situation.

My mum's 90. Step is 84
Mum is frail with many things including Parkinsons. She's still co tinent and can ha e a walk but can't cook and struggels with the laundry

Step is managing but could keel over at any time

We have had the conversation. I have PoA.
They know the nice local nursing homes and where they would want to go.

They have no chance of state funding.
The annual cost pp is £70k
If one goes before the other, the pension will cover about £40k, the rest will come from their estate.
With money, you can do what you like.

@elderlyparentone I'm sorry, it will be tough. Would your mother be able to manage if she downsized pending the final bill being settled on her death? If tjere's o ly state equivalent funding, is there money to top it up?

The assessment is solely on the person's individual assets without the partners having any impact.
This also means that all of his pension will be taken into account and any private pensions or attendance allowance.
For home care there is a guaranteed minimum income of around £236 per week( I think, off the top of my head). This reduces massively for residential care.
If DM wants help with care she will need to rely on her own income plus whatever contribution DF pays towards running of the household from his minimum income guarantee.
If he goes into residential care DM will need her own income, whether that be employment, benefits or pension.

Perhaps he could come and live with you for a while?

I must admit I'm not sure about money in joint accounts however. I guess it would be halved.
I'm not a fan of joint accounts tbh.

And where I said assets I meant income. Apologies.
Not so sure on savings to be fair.