Can you just put someone in a care home?

[elderlyparentone]

Blunt title. But DM (not elderly) is caring for DF (in 80s - big age gap). He has Parkinson’s plus many other things, including mild dementia. But he is mobile, can mostly go to the toilet by himself but does have some accidents. This seems to be the main problem. He doesn’t speak much, which is partly the condition, partly he’s always been a bit of a silent miserable bastard. He has previously had carers short term when he had an accident and broke a bone. DM has suddenly decided she can’t cope and wants to put him in a care home. I feel like maybe carers is a good middle step. But she feels this won’t help her, because carers won’t be predictable and she can’t leave him sitting in mess if he’s had a toilet accident.

Is it even possible to just put someone in a home? I feel that might be the worst place for him and we should at least try carers for a while.

They own their house, she has more savings, he has a small amount (around 10k). He has a pension they both live off. I understand half of his pension will be used to fund care, but they can’t fully self fund a full time care home. So will that mean he’s in a shitty home? Would they even take him when he doesn’t really seem to need it? What if she just refuses to help him anymore?

Struggling with how to navigate this. It seems like a sudden reaction, but I know she finds it hard and it’s all on her. I am an hour away, full time job, kids (toddler and primary school aged). Brother fucked off overseas. Apologies if this all sounds hard hearted, it’s a lot harder to deal with this stage than I’d anticipated.

Doesn’t sound as if this is an option!

@elderlyparentone hi, I don’t have information on how to go around getting your DF into a home, but you mentioned him being out in crappy home because of money. I just wanted to tell you that in my experience which is on/off over the last 20 years of working for agencies as a carer when I’ve been in-between permanent jobs, I’ve been to nursing homes that cost a fortune to ones that cost (comparatively!) buttons, and often the lower cost ones have actually been preferable to work at because the residents ate better food and had more fun activities so where much happier over the high/mid priced ones. So please don’t worry the home itself will be shite because you’re not getting him into a wealthy home. There are good/bad ones everywhere and it’s genuinely one of the very few exceptions of you get what you pay for being untrue. It comes down to management, kitchen staff and activities coordinating. All the money in the world can’t give you a passionate team, so don’t worry about that.
Best of luck to your parents and you, a parent going into a care home isn’t easy on anyone. X

do you live in the same house? NO ONE can make one human being be a carer for another human being. Whi is expecting you do do this? TO get the answers you need, maybe better to start your own thread?

OP Sorry but unless you are prepared to take on what your mother won't do, up to and including having your father to live with you, then its not up to you to have a view. I speak both as a professional and as someone who has been a carer. Assuming your father has capacity, then your mother can't make your father leave his home but she does not have to become his carer. Its a sad and difficult situation but those are the facts.

Isnt it irrelevant whether OP, Mum or Dad want a home? If they can't pay for it, they can't have it, unless social care deem it necessary. So that seems the place to start. Find out what level of care they're prepared to pay for.

It’s hard to get full answers. They’ve always been banking on DM getting half of his occupational pension (she would get half when he dies) as hers is dire due to part time work. I don’t know if the decision would be different if all his pension goes to fund care. She was under the impression it would be half plus his whole state pension and she’d still have the other half of the occupational pension.

Some people are being quite judgy of me here. I literally do not have space for another adult so can’t take him myself. I don’t have a downstairs bathroom. I have a full time job. I’m not saying she should have him, it just seems extreme to go from no help to straight into a home. I was hoping it might be at least worth a try.

What if she just refuses to help him anymore?

Your mother can only control what she does. So she can withdraw care and step back from everything she is doing for him. She can inform social services that there has been carer breakdown and that she will no longer be providing care, and that he needs a care assessment. Beyond that - unless she has POA and he has lost capacity - it’s out of her hands.

Assuming that you don’t jump in to replace her, a care assessment will advise if he needs carers to live at home, and if that’s not enough, they will recommend a care home. If his assets are more than £27.5k he will be expected to pay for care. The house should be disregarded as long as she lives in it.

She could do what my friends MIL did : she rented a flat in the village, moved out and left it to their children to sort out. Similar to your mum, she was sick of living with / caring for him. Watching her own life pass by, waiting for him to die. She didn’t go back, instead my friends DH quit his job and moved in 🙄. That didn’t last long. He went into a home, fell and broke his leg, died fairly soon after.

You are not prepared to care for him so he won't need to go into a home, so frankly, you are not in a position to expect (or even worse, coerce or guilt) someone else into doing what you are not prepared to do yourself. That is all. Do it yourself or keep your opinions to yourself.

@Bamboozled5. Where investments/ savings are in sole name but you are married they assume that they are 50/50 otherwise people would switch money around to evade paying! A wife with £100k in savings and a husband with £10k for instance would set alarm bells going. I know someone fighting this currently as she claims it’s her inheritance from her parents whereas the council say it’s marital assets

The problem is that it's virtually impossible to fully step back from care if the person is living in your own home.
Even with 4 carers a day and officially refusing to be his carer, she will still end up taking on stuff she doesn't want to simply to make her own home life hygienic and bearable.
It's not fair but it's how it is.
She can leave, obviously, but she needs to get out of her head that his occupational pension will be of any help to her while he's needed care. I don't know, but assume, that on his death, she would then receive half his occupational pension to boost her income.

When have I said I will coerce or guilt her? I appreciate this is an emotive topic and it’s clearly bringing some stuff up for you.

I’m trying to understand what is possible here. DM is under the impression she will be able to keep half his pension, otherwise she can’t afford to live unless she goes back to work. She isn’t yet of state pension age.

There is absolutely no way he will get funded based on what you say of his needs, the bar is set far higher. Get the ball rolling though with adult social services for a care needs assessment.

I am not judging but actually you did say
"I feel that might be the worst place for him and we should at least try carers for a while."
but you don't actually mean "we" do you? Because you have a ful time job and your house is too small.
Honestly no judgement from me but you do need to do some clear and honest thinking.

This is interesting. I’m not privy to their finances. DM does have some inheritance in her name I believe. She definitely has more in savings than he does.

I don’t think that’s correct. Local authorities have the power to investigate if they think something looks suspicious ie deprivation of assets by shifting money away for the person needing care. But the Care Act specifies that each person must be treated individually al when assessing financial status.

She will have to go back to work if he has care.
If he is at home and needing care she can get carers allowance but it's a paltry amount.

Someone up thread mentioned carers allowance, is she getting that?

He won’t be able to pay for a care home on his full pension never mind half of it, so it’s a non starter anyway.

Wait, why does she need half his pension if she has more savings than his £10k?

This was my thinking. He walks with a stick, takes himself to the toilet etc. Can shower by himself but ideally needs supervision. He does need help with medication as he’d entirely forget otherwise. She does all the washing and cleaning, but she has always done that as that’s been their set up since they married.

Unfortunately they do take joint accounts into account. They shouldn’t, because funds in a joint account are exactly that, joint property, as much one party’s as the other, not 50/50 split, but that’s how the assessment works.

It’s in the remaining account holder’s interest to spend from that account on big ticket items like funeral plans if not already in place, so that by the next assessment there is less to contribute.

You are very clearly suggesting she's wrong to say he should go into a home since, in your own words 'I feel carers would be a good middle step'. But carers means some else doing the majority of the care. If that 'somebody else' isn't you, then you don't get to suggest it.

Tbh I actually wouldn’t involve social services at this stage, what care does he actually need?

Carers allowance by the way is only payable if she has no income of her own or earns very little ( around £200 pw I believe)

then she and you need to get hold of the FACTS. and please don't hide behind "its clearly bringing stuff up/triggering/bringing up old memories" and so on. Its defensive and you know it. Talk to your mother about how you can both get hold of the FACTS and sort it out together. Get off the "what she should do" and think about how you can sort this together.

THIS FFS this