How to stop elderly parent from driving!

[Catchupwiththeneighbours]

Just after a bit of advice please.

Parent is 90 and I really feel he shouldn't be driving anymore especially as his car is a very powerful model and he over estimates his capability.

Earlier in the year I reported him to the DVLA and felt awful but that I had done the right thing and lo and behold they passed him fit to drive!!

He is being fairly sensible in that he won't drive in the dark or rain but still goes on the motorway occasionally, to the supermarket, church, health appointments etc.

We were at a funeral recently and all his friends expressed great concern that he was still driving as have various health professionals. Does anyone have any advice please? We have a pretty ropey relationship tbh, many big fallings out over the years and he does not take kindly to any help or interference but I just cannot help think that he's going to cause a dreadful accident if he carries on like this. He's had a couple of near misses, driven over the grass, hit a kerb, that kind of thing. So hard as it will remove his independence and I don't live particularly near to him but don't feel we can allow this to continue.

TIA

I’m not surprised you have a ropey relationship. Reporting your own father to the dvla!!! Wait till you’re older and see how you like it when your children start telling you what to do. Do you even drive?

Of course I drive, why should you assume I didn't? For your information he's admitted of his own volition over Christmas that he can no longer drive safely which has come as a massive relief to all his family. I'm very glad he reached this conclusion before he killed someone. I'd rather hope if I reach his age that somebody does take the keys from me, he's 90 fgs not 70. Do you seriously think someone like Prince Philip should still have been driving at that great age? Because that's pretty much where we are..

I'm wondering if someone somewhere has balanced the calamitous effect of banning old people living alone with no relatives on hand being confined to the house, against the risk of letting them drive with some impairment.

There is a huge list of ailments which have to be reported to the DVLA. If you are in an accident, and it is found you have not reported the medical condition with which you suffer, I think it can invalidate your insurance, and you are liable to be fined.

Mind you, at present, the DVLA are not accepting phone calls, as they are so short staffed, with a huge backlog - I know because I have a medical condition, for which my licence has run out. As long as my Doctor has told me I can drive, and I submit the renewal form with the details, which will be corroborated by the HCPs I name on the form, I can still drive perfectly legally.

I reported him via the DVLA website, he has cataracts and cannot turn his neck. He's admitted he can't see the kerb.... If your son or whoever were cycling along that road I wonder whose 'rights' would trump the others. Btw, it's me that all the extra driving will fall upon so I don't take the situation lightly and without much pause for thought. Yes I'm primarily considering other road users above his needs but I shall be filling that particular breach myself.

I'm wondering if someone somewhere has balanced the calamitous effect of banning old people living alone with no relatives on hand being confined to the house, against the risk of letting them drive with some impairment

I don't know but I think this is why people need to plan for old age with much more thought.

You really do need to be able to get to the GP and pharmacy pretty easily and a supermarket too.

Getting one or two local taxis a week is unlikely to be more expensive than ownership cost of a car including depreciation costs.

The issue is if the driver has an accident it may not just be themselves that gets injured or even killed.

My update is for various reasons DH ended up as a passenger in the car with DF and said he thought his driving was ok, which is good enough for me not to feel the need to do anything for a while.

My aunt was driving at 93, and was a nightmare. Her doctor eventually reported her to the DVLA and she lost her license. I suspect they take a lot more notice of a health professional than a family member. So I suggest that you approach those professionals who've questioned his driving and ask them to report him. And for more than his cataracts.

Do you seriously think someone like Prince Philip should still have been driving at that great age? I don’t think someone who has lost the capability to drive safely should drive. Age should not be a determining factor. Saying “most people in their 90s are no longer capable of driving” is not the same as “this person is 92 and therefore cannot drive safely”.

I do think we should tilt the balance of public investment away from roads and into public transport. It’s outrageous that some of the money from the cancelled HS2 is being diverted to mending potholes.

You really do need to be able to get to the GP and pharmacy pretty easily and a supermarket too. This drives me mad, the idea that elderly people don’t need to travel apart from GP, pharmacy and supermarket. What will hasten my decline is when I have to give up my voluntary work because I can no longer drive to it.

If you're still doing your volunteering at 90 then absolutely you should drive to it.
DF only gave up his video tape moving to disc business a few weeks ago age 90, as he can't quite cope with the nuances and remember all the steps he has to do any more.

I don't know why you're angry that people are stating that elderly folk mostly drive to doctors and shops. There might be the rare exception going to the races or having a driving holiday but majority of people do have cognitive and physical decline. I'd love it if my parents acted as they did when 10 years younger, but they can't help being the age they are - and they go for a walk every day to keep active so they have kept good care of their bodies, never smoked or drunk more than a glass or wine or so at a time.

I'm so shocked that anyone would treat anyone like this let alone their parents. They are adults. Just like we have to sit down and talk things through with children so you should do so with adults. Hiding keys and taking cars and reporting them, and then when they have been told they can drive you want to report them again. If you can't give them a lift everywhere they want/need to go then how do you expect them to live their life. If your dad thought you were driving dangerously, it's not just the elderly that can't drive, then you would not accept him taking your keys away from you, you would want him to talk to you and then still expect to make your own decision.

I would work on rebuilding a relationship with him and talk to him about different alternatives to driving, go with him on the bus a few times so he can be confident with it, give him the money for taxis, you need to give him alternatives not just take away his only any of getting around.

@Oaktree1952 my DF was dangerous and I am not ashamed for reporting him, I can see everyone being up in arms about him killing someone and the pile on that would follow about "how the family knew he was dangerous and did nothing".

For perspective I spent months repeatedly reporting that DF had dementia and was not safe to drive and the DVLA did nothing except write to him and ask him to confirm he was fit and well, which he obviously said he was. So yes we took his keys for his own and other people's safety, a month later DF was sectioned because his dementia was so bad and he was refusing treatment, this was a man who could not make rational or reasonable decisions for himself thinking he could go out in a car and safely.

Sadly many of the older generation do not realise their capability to drive is getting worse.

At 77 I am one of the worst for still thinking I can do stuff - BUT I do admit already my reactions are slower, oncoming headlights dazzle me (especially in the rain) and I find it very tiring. Glasses help only so much so I drive familiar roads, not at night or heavy rain - this is in spite of the fact that I commuted for thousands of accident free miles during my 40 year working life

If an overly stubborn very much older person is having accidents and refuses to give up (men seem to attach so much to their driving ability that they are often the worst offenders) - remove the keys, sell the car and keep reporting to the DVLA.

Since over 70s have to renew licence each year - it is obvious they must be lying on the form which asks medical questions.

Did a doctor diagnose this or a psychiatrist - my family member was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and it was the psychiatrist who contacted the DVLA.

@LickleLamb a Dr initially, we did ask the Dr to contact the DVLA when we weren't being listened too but they were reluctant to help, once we asked a second time out of DF hearing and explained how bad his driving was they wrote to the DVLA and his license was revoked. DF driving was terrible he would swerve all over the road, cut people up, drift over to the wrong side of the road etc it was a matter of time before someone got hurt. We did also see a dementia specialist at hospital and spoke to them as well when DF was going through the diagnosis and they also contacted the GP and DVLA. It was frustrating as we were trying to do our best to stop something awful happening but it was such a battle

As much as you feel unsafe with older people driving, unless they are assessed as unfit to drive or they lose capacity and you have POA you can't just take their keys, sell the car and give back their driving lisence. You can only report.

You're not responsible for what happens if he drives. The DVLA and the driver are responsible.

You are responsible for not getting in the car, not letting your kids get in the car and for reporting concerns to the relevant people.

This is a widespread issue, the rules are inadequate, but that's not your fault.

For over 70s it renewal every 3 years not yearly.

Why can't he pay for his own taxis?
He's statistically likely to have more disposable income, plus access to non means tested benefits.
You treat them like children because many have reduced mental capacity and impaired judgement and decision making. It's a physiological fact of ageing.
No doubt adult Dc called to pick up the pieces if an accident happened.

I don't know why you're angry that people are stating that elderly folk mostly drive to doctors and shops. Because it’s stereotyping (it’s usually presented as that’s all an elderly person needs to do) and because I'm in my 70s and associate with a lot of people in their 70s and 80s, and they do not fit the stereotype. Admittedly I don’t know many in their 90s and obviously the ones I know are the ones who are more active.

You raise a fair point about stereotyping @MereDintofPandiculation and I agree assessment should be individual and not automatically on the basis of age.

I would say though that I noticed with my father that in his 60s he often said he wanted us to intervene if we thought he was no longer able to drive but the subject was verboten when he was in his 70s and 80s. By the time he died (early 80s) we were at the point where he was beginning to become unsafe (slow reaction times) but he was in denial (as was my mother).

Luckily for other road users he became ill and his driving days ended without any intervention needed, but I think the cognitive and physical decline often go hand in hand with a refusal/inability to acknowledge its reality and effects, and driving is a prime example of this.

I said:
I'm wondering if someone somewhere has balanced the calamitous effect of banning old people living alone with no relatives on hand being confined to the house, against the risk of letting them drive with some impairment.

And you replied with the above quote.

My post was merely stating that perhaps The Powers That Be, in government or the Civil Service, had done a cost/benefit analysis at the population level.

And explaining that the DVLA are incredibly understaffed, and can't keep up with the work.

I was so lucky with Dad.

When we lost Mum, he told me he didn't think he was safe driving anymore but he hadn't wanted to upset Mum as when she was seriously ill he was her only means of getting to the hospital 20 miles away. He was also worried about being abandoned because he lives out of town and in an area with poor public transport.

We looked into community transport and two years later he has friends that pick him up for things, he can walk to.a shop, we do his big shop as a delivery and he uses a community bus that comes to his house once a month.

He sold his car after a year although he never actually drove again after our initial conversation. I've told him how proud of him I am as its terribly difficult giving up after all those years.

It's hard if they don't see it and even worse if the DVLA don't!

If he isn’t safe to drive, he isn’t safe to drive. If he lives in a place which is not suitable for taxis or public transport and is no longer safe to drive, I’m afraid he needs to move.

People, including children, are killed and maimed by drivers who refuse to accept that they can’t drive safely any more, and the DVLA appears to be pretty useless.

You clearly never met my FIL. Like many old men he was proud and stubborn. He knew his ability to judge speed and distance had gone to pot so he just drove very slowly and waited ages to pull out of junctions, not that that stopped him pulling out when he shouldn't. It also didn't stop wandering all over the road. In the 3 months after being reported and then cleared to drive he had 2 accidents due to not being able to judge how far he was from the kerb or an obstacle, 1 resulting in damage to a post and 1 resulting in his car being written off. He terrified anyone who watched him drive. But even after he wrote off his car he was determined to get another until the police had a quiet word. But because he didn't have any of the conditions on a standard checklist and was happy to say he felt OK to drive DVLA were happy. Try and have a sensible conversation about alternatives to driving and you were shouted down and severely disabled and now non verbal MIL would get get distressed and start screaming.

Something that’s worth considering, is that by the time someone gets to the point where they cannot drive safely any more, they will not be far off the point where they are needing help from other people (home helps, domestic assistance, gardeners, all that kind of thing). If they live in the middle of nowhere at a long distance from the town with no public transport and where taxi rides are likely to be very expensive due to the long distances involved, getting that help will be difficult. It will be highly inconvenient for adult children to drag all the way over to the parent’s house to help them. And providing care services to large numbers of elderly people in straggling out-of-town rural areas is going to bankrupt local authorities.

Really, if people are in this situation, this is another reason why they need to move somewhere more central once they get to this point, unless they have local help on hand. Growing old in the countryside is fine if you are “generationally rural” (ie you are part of a farming etc. family or something like that and have younger extended family members around you, plus a wider established community who are there to help you out) or if you have enough money to pay for live-in help, hired cars with drivers and so on. Otherwise, it is highly risky and puts a lot of pressure on other people.