Page 29 | Gender critical in Ireland

Muppetryofthepenis · 2022-06-11T15:57:01+00:00

Just wondering if there are many others out there. Was reading a political pamphlet and it was going on about self ID and how important it is. I just don't agree and think it's so damaging to change the definition of what a woman is. And the definition of a man too, I guess. Sex based rights are under threat in Ireland. Fed up with all the nonsense. Wondering what other Irish mumsnetters think.

Furzeiseverywhere · 17/03/2023 07:43

The two contentious issues revolve around “gender self-identity” and “ethical porn”.

What is 'ethical porn' and what is the issue around it re schools? I haven't heard about it before.

butterfliesanddoves · 17/03/2023 07:55

gript.ie/concerns-as-rse-for-junior-cycle-programme-flagged-to-teach-irish-junior-cert-students-about-porn/
I know a lot of people say gript.ie is very right wing but they tend to be good on reporting on these issues.

Leopardprintonsie · 17/03/2023 07:56

bellinisurge · 17/03/2023 07:00

Hopefully BK will be Ireland's version of Adam Graham/Isla Bryson. And his case will get some mainstream media coverage

This doesn't seem to be getting any media or social media coverage. I only saw it here last night & the articles I could find on Google all referred to BK as a woman not a transgender woman.
Again censorship is alive & well.

Leopardprintonsie · 17/03/2023 08:01

butterfliesanddoves · 17/03/2023 07:10

2 letters I saw in a regional paper this week. The teaching of gender identity as fact in primary schools is causing concern. I would never have seen letters published on this topic in the past

The first

Many questions
remain on gender-identity affirmation
SIR,

I am writing in response to Stephen Fernane's opinion piece (March 8): 'Are gender identity and parental consent at odds with each other?'

Many parents are also beginning to question the rush into gender identity affirmation, when the cost is so extraordinarily evasive and when the long-term benefits are disputable and unknown.

Similar to Minister Norma Foley, Tavistock, the UK's child gender clinic, had argued for “the entitlement of children to make decisions for themselves.” The NHS review of the Tavistock Clinic led to the clinic's closure because it was unable to show that it could adequately provide evidence-based recommendations to patients.

It had experienced a staggering 5,000 per cent increase in referrals, primarily from girls, over a six years period. There is no scientific consensus as to why this happened. However, parental consent was identified as being crucial in obtaining the best outcomes for children, including minors.

It seems that parents really do know their children best and are better positioned as a result to provide greater guidance when it comes to assessing the options, risks and benefits of any action, especially those with life-long consequences.

Finally, given the low prevalence of gender dysphoria in adults - estimated at 0.1% - and the high rates that desist with their trans identification before adulthood without any intervention, I question the wisdom of recent rhetoric and curriculum changes.

Would the best solution not be to provide those with gender dysphoria the right psychological and healthcare supports, and those with gender confusion with much-needed guidance, especially from their parents and that gender theorists should be philosophically and scientifically challenged, so as to ensure the right protections for all our children?

Perhaps the reality is after all, that parents, not being motivated along ideological or political grounds are best positioned as the constitution (article 42.1) states to be the “primary and natural educator” of their child,

Key word here is psychological care. This is whats needed for those kids.

Furzeiseverywhere · 17/03/2023 08:24

Thanks @butterfliesanddoves.
DC is in first year and I'm worried. I haven't a clue what they're telling them or planning on telling them. I know the school is working with BelongTo as well, which parents were told was a very good thing, but I don't think it is now.

Believerinbiology · 17/03/2023 11:14

Túsla among others have in the past threatened sites and publications with legal action for covering reporting on BK. The chocolate teapot garda alert warning people about BK failed to mention BK is male. For whatever reason pressure is being placed not to state the obvious re BK.
Garda Alert

Believerinbiology · 17/03/2023 11:30

Other BK threads with info on other crimes against women:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4033284-Another-one-for-Irish-Feminists-this-person-holds-a-GRC-and-might-soon-be-held-in-Dochas-prison-with-women-and-childrem?page=1
Túsla and BK:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4050131-T-sla-and-Barbie-Kardashian

AppleCharlottie · 17/03/2023 12:30

Bit of a twist on the Enoch Burke story this morning too. Apparently the parents were never informed their child was the child in question during court case against him.
m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/parent-of-transgender-student-in-enoch-burke-row-expresses-safety-concern-for-their-family-42390736.html

Genesis1v27 · 17/03/2023 13:45

The original headline on that story was rather different.

LadyEloise1 · 17/03/2023 16:07

Believerinbiology · 17/03/2023 11:14

Túsla among others have in the past threatened sites and publications with legal action for covering reporting on BK. The chocolate teapot garda alert warning people about BK failed to mention BK is male. For whatever reason pressure is being placed not to state the obvious re BK.
Garda Alert

🙄Ffs !

Farmageddon · 17/03/2023 16:14

Believerinbiology · 17/03/2023 11:14

Túsla among others have in the past threatened sites and publications with legal action for covering reporting on BK. The chocolate teapot garda alert warning people about BK failed to mention BK is male. For whatever reason pressure is being placed not to state the obvious re BK.
Garda Alert

It's so frustrating - nowhere does it state that this is a man. Why is this person being given state protection in terms on being anonymous? This man is now over 18 and clearly a risk to women.

Farmageddon · 17/03/2023 16:17

Also, if anyone is interested in getting involved in regional groups to try and push back against this, the Countess website sent out an email recently - hope it's ok to paste it here:

We are beginning the work of establishing Countess chapters around Ireland.

If you would like to lead one, get in touch & we will get you started with resources, training & our policy documents. We provide a non-religious, legal framework for resisting trans ideology in the community.

There is no requirement to lead, that can be organised once we have these groups up and running.

The key thing at this stage is to rollout a network of regional chapters to tackle these issues on a local footing using our resources & our approach.
**
We will offer training to new regional groups on advocacy, legal framework as well as media training.

If you are interested, please send us an email
[email protected]

Leopardprintonsie · 17/03/2023 16:43

Farmageddon · 17/03/2023 16:14

It's so frustrating - nowhere does it state that this is a man. Why is this person being given state protection in terms on being anonymous? This man is now over 18 and clearly a risk to women.

Show quote history

The media & government have a zero tolerance policy re trans negativity. It's censorship.

butterfliesanddoves · 18/03/2023 15:32

gript.ie/exclusive-anger-and-fear-amongst-gardai-over-new-trans-policy/
I notice this part.

"Sources also raised concerns about a provision in the procedure that states that staff who are transitioning, “but not in receipt of a Gender Recognition Certificate,” will not be required to “use the restroom/changing facility of their designated birth Gender.”

Are GRC's now considered to be 'onerous gatekeeping'.

I suppose we really need our gardai to accept that people are who they say they are, no debate.

AncientBallerina · 19/03/2023 10:44

ladymactíre · 15/03/2023 15:48

Did you see Drew Barrymore kneeling in front of Dylan Mulvaney... Vomit inducing! What can we expect when women behave like this
I saw the Paul Murphy TD article as well - refers to the baby as "it" - my eyes rolled so hard that I saw my brain.

Paul Murphy made an absolute fool of himself in that article. Is this seriously what Irish socialism looks like. I have no idea who to vote for anymore. Seriously considering either not voting or spoiling my vote the next time except that I wouldn’t because of what the women before me went through to get the vote.

Annasgirl · 19/03/2023 14:05

Brenda Power has an excellent article in the Sunday Times about this (Paul Murphy) today. And the comments are all supportive of Brenda. Meanwhile, Louise O’Neill takes the opposite stance and gets roasted in the comments section.

I really think people are waking up to what has happened in Ireland and they do not agree with it - but it is going to be very hard to dismantle

FionaMacCool · 19/03/2023 14:14

Do you know what struck me when I read the Paul Murphy article

my eyes were rolling- this is a dad of 2 weeks talking. Personally, I was in baby bubble for about 6weeks, until the unrelenting lack of sleep almost broke me
his poor partner went through 18months of IVF and it is barely mentioned. I didn't experience it myself, but goodness, for my women friends who did, it took an horrendous toll on their physical and mental health.

no picture of, and minimal reference to, baby's mum as "this sexist society that puts most childbearing ...on to women". (my emphasis.... should have read "all" as no man has ever yet borne a child).

he's "mindful of respecting baby's privacy". But, I and all the other randoms on the internets, have a picture of his child, an approximate date of birth, the circumstances of their conception, as well as their parents names. That's not a lot of privacy for a 2-week old.

When you analyse this, the reproductive labour has been done by Mum; but the profile is going to Dad. T'is the same old, same old in lovely Ireland.

FionaMacCool · 19/03/2023 14:16

Annasgirl · 19/03/2023 14:05

Brenda Power has an excellent article in the Sunday Times about this (Paul Murphy) today. And the comments are all supportive of Brenda. Meanwhile, Louise O’Neill takes the opposite stance and gets roasted in the comments section.

I really think people are waking up to what has happened in Ireland and they do not agree with it - but it is going to be very hard to dismantle

Do you have a link @Annasgirl ... I'd go and buy the paper to support critical thinking on this issue.

Farmageddon · 19/03/2023 15:07

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b1d827f0-c5d0-11ed-bd5d-fb821bb192f5?shareToken=c91ee15f3da8b78440cdb1f010926f68

Hopefully this will work.

butterfliesanddoves · 19/03/2023 17:04

Farmageddon · 19/03/2023 15:07

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b1d827f0-c5d0-11ed-bd5d-fb821bb192f5?shareToken=c91ee15f3da8b78440cdb1f010926f68

Hopefully this will work.

Thanks for the link. Sadly, I think Brenda is a little optimistic in thinking Barbie Kardashian will be to Leo, what Isla Bryson was to Sturgeon. There are no signs that that case is going to explode onto the front pages.
Apart from Aontú, all the opposition parties fully support the promotion of gender identity and none are likely to make it a political issue for Varadker because they have all been complicit in what is happening.

butterfliesanddoves · 19/03/2023 17:16

Annasgirl · 19/03/2023 14:05

Brenda Power has an excellent article in the Sunday Times about this (Paul Murphy) today. And the comments are all supportive of Brenda. Meanwhile, Louise O’Neill takes the opposite stance and gets roasted in the comments section.

I really think people are waking up to what has happened in Ireland and they do not agree with it - but it is going to be very hard to dismantle

I was looking at this from Colette Colfer
twitter.com/ColetteColfer/status/1637482023487954948?t=RcbKyhiMFZZIT09qXcxAag&s=19

An example, perhaps, of how it will be very difficult to dismantle the level of capture that runs very deep?

Even if her complaint was handled fairly, the optics aren't good.

Leopardprintonsie · 19/03/2023 23:37

butterfliesanddoves · 19/03/2023 17:04

Thanks for the link. Sadly, I think Brenda is a little optimistic in thinking Barbie Kardashian will be to Leo, what Isla Bryson was to Sturgeon. There are no signs that that case is going to explode onto the front pages.
Apart from Aontú, all the opposition parties fully support the promotion of gender identity and none are likely to make it a political issue for Varadker because they have all been complicit in what is happening.

Show quote history

So true. All in the name of bring "progressive" & "woke" whilst eyeballing cushy jobs in Europe👀
Happy Mothers Day for how ever long more this lasts... I'm sure some woke group will take offense to this too... Nothing is fucking sacred.

AncientBallerina · 20/03/2023 08:57

What absolutely kills me is that I know I voted for self id because I had no idea of the implications (like many others I guess) I remember seeing it on the ballot, not being previously aware of it and thinking in my ‘tolerant self’ mode ‘oh yes we must make life easier for trans people’ . I had no concept that it could be abused. The way it was a brought in by stealth is appalling. My only beacon of hope is that I have held a strong GC line at home and with friends/ relatives (I’m a biologist so no/one can bamboozle me with ‘science’ especially not the hijacking of people with DSDs), and I hope that I have at least given them pause to think. My teens gave me a hard time for a while but I think they are getting it now. The number of troubled ‘non binary’ /trans teens we know… I think they are seeing the fallout in their peer group but what a sad way for them to see the light.
I will never give PBP a vote again and I used to vote them No. 1

Leopardprintonsie · 20/03/2023 09:05

Can I ask if all these self I. D kids are referred to a psychologist in the first instance? Still can't believe the govt are entertaining such shit.

Believerinbiology · 20/03/2023 09:26

AncientBallerina unless you were in government you didn't vote for this, none of us did. The second question that day was about lowering the age a presidential candidate can be. Much as some people in other countries may like to say we voted this in, we didn't...unless there has been a collective mass memory loss and removing any record of it.
electionsireland.org/results/referendum/index.cfm