What does plan B mean for those without vaccines?

[Nevertime]

So it looks like Plan B announced within the next couple of days,which seems to predominantly mean vaccine passports and wfh.

Everyone in this household is fully vaccinated, but one important person (to us) isn't.

Presumably the passports are to gain entry to certain venues so out of those it's carry on regardless?

Does it matter why they don't have the vaccine or what age they are?

@oneglassandpuzzled

I wonder if some of those complaining about the government having and tracking their personal information are so worried about Google, Amazon, Facebook etc tracking them?

Yes, so I use tools to protect online privacy (or avoid some of the companies altogether).

But even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter. If I were happy for Google to know every last detail about me, but didn't want to give that information to the government, that's up to me. Maybe I trust Google more. You can disagree on who is more trustworthy, but 'if one company has your information with your consent, you should be happy with everyone who wants it having it' isn't a sound argument.

I would really prefer if everyone was fully vaccinated with every vaccine the NHS offers, but I respect people's bodily autonomy. This is a step in a very uncomfortable direction.

I'm fully vaccinated BTW.

@oneglassandpuzzled

I wonder if some of those complaining about the government having and tracking their personal information are so worried about Google, Amazon, Facebook etc tracking them?

The nhs (if not the government per se) has the info on vaccine status anyway. If the complaint is around letting someone at the entrance to a venue see it for a moment... I'm missing why this is seen by anyone as problematic, unless it's part of a largely spurious 'slippery slope' argument.

And the vaccination/test status of clients literally is a venue's business, as it impacts the health of their staff.

All it’s going to do is put pressure on the nightclub industry for now.

So who is putting pressure on them? Your solution seems to be to test everyone or do nothing. If you do nothing, then there will be more people ill or dead. If you make everyone test regardless of vaccine status, it will put people off getting vaccinated even more, why would gov do that?

From my pov, those who are putting pressure on everyone is the people who chose not to get vaccinated without any legitimate reason.

I honestly think with the omicron variant, the unvaccinated have more to worry about than plan b.

I've yet to hear a reasonable, cohesive, research based arguement as to why those who choose to remain unvaccinated, do so. Obviously I'm not including those people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, or people who are severely immunocompromised.
The only thing that is going to encourage the unvaccinated to get jabbed is inconvenience to themselves. So I'm glad about the vaccine passports. I just really don't understand the selfishness of those who remain willingly unvaccinated.

@ErrolTheDragon

And the vaccination/test status of clients literally is a venue's business, as it impacts the health of their staff.

Do you think staff should have to show their vaccine status too?

How does a vaccine passport inform you of someone’s COVID status anyway? Vaccinated people can still be infected. If you want to genuinely want to ensure the safety of your staff, require that everyone provides proof of a negative test.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown this policy is putting pressure on them.

@Bluntness100the majority of SA are unvaccinated. What do you find concerning about their data atm?

@AgathaX why do they need one? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to choose whether or not they have a vaccine that is primarily about reducing their own personal risk?

I ain't worried about plan B.
I am worried about vaccine mandates as I think they will lead to serious social unrest - eg see major marches around the world going on right now, tens of thousands of people were marching through Munich only yesterday (obviously they are all far right lunatic conspiracy theorists, ditto the millions of others who have marched in Australia, Austria, Holland, New Zealand and so on these past few months - loonies, all of them lol).
Seriously though, this is going to divide society in two and (in my personal opinion) usher in a very dark period in history.
I have never before wanted to be more wrong about anything!

@AgathaX

I've yet to hear a reasonable, cohesive, research based arguement as to why those who choose to remain unvaccinated, do so. Obviously I'm not including those people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, or people who are severely immunocompromised. The only thing that is going to encourage the unvaccinated to get jabbed is inconvenience to themselves. So I'm glad about the vaccine passports. I just really don't understand the selfishness of those who remain willingly unvaccinated.

In my case l would have been given AZ / just as l was about to go,a good friend suffered a moderate stroke from a reaction. The reaction was because of a medical condition she has / l had totally forgotten l have the condition also. It could have been me. Nobody warned me - nobody knew. I then became scared to the point that my mental health plummeted as l realised something might be in the other vaccines that could cause a bad reaction too. I’ve not been able to shake this off.

@whynotwhatknot

i feel sorry for the elderly who will have to wait ages probably for a certificate to say theyre vaccinated all because they dont have a smartphone

I ordered mine last Monday it arrived on the Friday. I don't know if that's considered to be "ages" but I thought it was ok.

Surely if vaccine Passports worked we'd never have gotten the new variant? We are an island after all.

Either you believe in bodily autonomy or you don't. If you do then that means people will.make choices you disagree with . Be careful what you wish for..if we give up the right to decide then what happens if ots something you dont want next time that you are then forced to do.

It applies to all choices / treatments. Not just those you agree with.

And stop throwing labels around to shut people up. There's nothing wrong with being concerned about medical Intervention that has no long term data/info to make an.inforned decision. Unless you are volunteering to work for, cook,.clean , baby sit for those who have serious side effects then you need to accept their decisions. If you trust the vaccine then it shouldn't worry you. Why r you taking vaccines if you aren't expecting them to work.

Its a terrible idea. And when it plays out that despite excluding unvaccinated people from.doing stuff its made little difference ( again, we still got the a variant despite being an island and the measures in place) you will all have to find another group of people to blame for whatever.

And to all those who claim to care about the nhs, I.assuming none of them.drink, smoke, drive,.are over weight , have kids, have pets, have stairs, boil kettles, cook, got drunk ans ended up in.a&e, etc

I'm sick to death of those people who think they're special and refuse to take the vaccine.

Fine it's your choice but actions have consequences and that might mean you just can't go to some places. It's not unfair, nobody is bullying you, picking on you or forcing you to out something in your body.

Obviously people who can't take it for actual, doctor advised, medical reasons should be exempt

@Wakemeuuuup

I'm sick to death of those people who think they're special and refuse to take the vaccine.

Fine it's your choice but actions have consequences and that might mean you just can't go to some places. It's not unfair, nobody is bullying you, picking on you or forcing you to out something in your body.

Obviously people who can't take it for actual, doctor advised, medical reasons should be exempt

Usually humans have rights taken away if they’ve committed a crime. In this scenario anybody who is hesitant to take a vaccine is treated the same. It’s blackmail. It was originally given to vulnerable & elderly people. Where did the choice go for people outside those groups? Taking away freedoms bit by bit. Every other vaccine, even childhood ones are optional. Why does the refusal of this one spike such venomous spite? If l were to become vaccine damaged - there is nothing for my family & and no need for the government to make good. I personally know vaccine damaged people, for balance l also know those that faired perfectly well. However, it should stop with me - if l want to be injected.

It does stop with you, you've made your choice not to be vaccinated but why do you think your right to go to the pub etc is more important than mine not to want to be surrounded by unvaccinated people.

It comes down to you believing you're more special than me. I don't get why everybody must tip toe around those who have made a choice not to take the vaccine but scream blue murder if they don't have exactly the same freedoms. The freedom was the decision not to take vaccine

@Wakemeuuuup

It does stop with you, you've made your choice not to be vaccinated but why do you think your right to go to the pub etc is more important than mine not to want to be surrounded by unvaccinated people.

It comes down to you believing you're more special than me. I don't get why everybody must tip toe around those who have made a choice not to take the vaccine but scream blue murder if they don't have exactly the same freedoms. The freedom was the decision not to take vaccine

I never go to the pub, or large venues. I just go to work & sometimes buy a coffee to take away from Costa .. maybe go to a few independent shops. I always wear a mask & keep away from people. You’ve been vaccinated so why would you worry about people like me? I’m not more special than u - it seems l might be a bit more understanding of the concept of choice though? I’ve explained earlier in this thread that if l had taken AZ l could have had dire side effects. I’m now not convinced that the others are safe for me either. My punishment (that sits ok with you)is that l could now be treated as a leper & barred from simple activities - nice.

Did you go to see a doctor and explain your concerns? If you did then they may agree that you would be exempt which means you're not refusing the vaccine and my post doesn't apply to you.

I'm sorry for what happened to your friend.

My post (rant if you wish) is because I'm sick of people just deciding the whole thing is a conspiracy, government can't tell me what to do etc etc. The whole, it's my body I'll decide type kind of people. They then expect the rest of us to say poor you when they having actively chosen not to do the right thing for society.

Before anyone asks, I also think the genuinely exempt, as per NHS letter, should be the only ones not wearing a mask. Everyone else should be wearing it properly.

If you choose not to be vaccinated it’s just tough. If you cant have the vaccine then vaccine passports are exactly what is need to protect you and as long as it is for a medical reason you should be exempt. I suspect if night clubs are allowed to remain open over Xmas there are going to be some very pissed off young adults for who it is now too late to be vaccinated.

I live in Switzerland. We have vaccine passports - to eat inside, for gyms, for cinemas. For almost everything other than shopping and public transport.
Yesterday I went out with a friend - she is not vaccinated. It was raining.
There was literally no where we could go. We are out lunch on the train and in one place found a nice sort of posh extended shed - these you are allowed to consume drinks/food in because they are considers to be outside
She has a friend in German. Also not vaccinated. A part on his car broke. The garage refused his custom because he wasn’t vaccinated. And that’s legal.
Believe me. You don’t want this in the Uk.
Look at Switzerlands numbers. We have had these vaccine passports since September. Since then the numbers have gone up and up. So clearly the vaccine passports don’t work.
And what about bodily autonomy. That’s important too. If you want a vaccine get it - it will protect you. But people in a free country shouldn’t be forced to have a medical procedure they don’t want.

And there is your answer for antivaccers and those who chose not to have the vaccine it’s all about me. Those of us who are vaccinated have done so in order to benefit ourselves and the rest of society including you.
Perhaps the great vaccinated deserve a reward for putting themselves on the line and being part of this big experiment.
I share your fears about the vaccine but having had Covid twice, pre vaccine and post vaccine, I am satisfied that it was worth the risk. Post vaccine Covid was a walk in the park compared to the first dose I had.

@Angrymum22 I won't have it because I've lost a family member from it so if it's selfish then so be it. They thought they were doing the right thing and were young enough to get over it with little or no symptoms without the vaccine. People like you trying to put pressure on others to have it are just as bad as anti vaxxers trying to pressure people not to have it.

[quote seb342]@Angrymum22 I won't have it because I've lost a family member from it so if it's selfish then so be it. They thought they were doing the right thing and were young enough to get over it with little or no symptoms without the vaccine. People like you trying to put pressure on others to have it are just as bad as anti vaxxers trying to pressure people not to have it. [/quote]
You won't have the vaccine because you lost a family member to Covid?

@PAFMO I lost a family member to the vaccine hence my opening sentence "I won't have it because I lost a family member to it".

[quote seb342]@PAFMO I lost a family member to the vaccine hence my opening sentence "I won't have it because I lost a family member to it". [/quote]
It was "They thought they were doing the right thing and were young enough to get over it with little or no symptoms without the vaccine." which confused me.