90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

"There are people who refuse all medical intervention in place of prayer.
I agree they have the right to refuse medical treatment if they wish. No matter how bonkers the rest of us feel.
Thankfully, sanity does usually prevail when it's their minor children they are refusing life saving care for, though, and the state generally steps in."

See this I can relate to, I don't understand denying medical treatment who is to say medical treatment wasn't provided by God as an answer to a prayer.

I do think right to refuse treatment is important because I don't believe in forced medical intervention. People need to trust HCP but this is hard to do when they are saying unvaccinated should not recieve treatment.

I think denying medical care to anyone is morally wrong, but by same token, parents need to understand HCP do make mistakes and are not always right. So should have right to question things without been belittled or stigmatised, this can also cost lives..

That sound like such a difficult time @Unimpressed2021

@Northsoutheastwest76 it was, we thought they wern't going to make it, this is why I question things more now and don't blindly trust. Would I let them have surgery or medicine if needed absolutely, but in same token I will be more cautious about it, unless risk was significant I would still agree.

@Plataxit is actually offered to hcps (who can be young and healthy) and children (also young people this year).

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

They admit this isn't true?

Different story boogiebogie. The one you're linking to is about hospitalisation and no it's no longer true that 90% of UK Covid-hospitalised people are unvaccinated.

This thread is about a new stat relating to a limited subset of people in intensive care. Because ICU deals with younger patients it has an even more disproportionate share of unvaccinated people.

I have not been on MN for anywhere near 20 years yet. And I think you’ll find that my opinions on childhood vaccination actually still involve using vaccines so hardly ‘antivax’ eg that the single measles vaccine should have been kept available on the nhs when there was concern about the mmr so that concerned parents at least had the option.

Pardon me, lack of sleep. 10 years, not 20. As I said, I have never encountered an anti-vaxxer who declares themselves or believes themselves to be an anti-vaxxer. Which is fascinating if you think about it.

Iirc you’re from Australia? I guess that may go some way to explaining your aggressiveness towards people who have a different opinion on mandatory vaccination/vaccine passports etc.

Oh, good for you! Getting in the boot in whilst taking the higher moral ground.

The trouble with these types of threads is anyone can claim to be anything. I could tell you all about my work as a doctor on the front line and write calmly and eloquently about it, using it to push my agenda (which would be unapologetically Pro vaccine).

The fact it's fiction is neither here nor there.

I know a few doctors in rl and every one of them got their vaccines the second they could. But ofc you've only got my word for that.

@Platax on its own no where that I can find, however in last book it does mention accepting mark in relation to buying and selling which if you look at vaccine and no jab no job its to close for me.

Could you translate, @Unimpressed2021?

I don’t think you’re really in any position to say I’m ‘getting the boot in’ given your previous post to me @milkyaqua

I’ve never met an ‘anti-vaxxer’ who actually agrees with vaccines, thinks they have saved millions of lives, thinks we should prioritise it for vulnerable groups (including hcps and vulnerable in developing countries) and prioritise boosters here in the U.K. to reduce hospital figures(which is already starting to work) but apparently, despite thinking and stating all those things I am ‘antivax’ because I disagree with mandatory/coerced vaccination and vaccine passports.

should I have blindly trusted the doctors who told me my son was fine when he had infection....when in fact he ended up on IV antibodics in hospital...or the fact some events were missing from his medical file?

Hot news, doctors are people, people are not infallible. But you seem to have trusted the doctors who prescribed the antibiotics and the other HCPs who administered and monitored them?

We should always question rules and science its how we learn, blind faith in government, corporations and medical professionals

When literally millions of people have had the vaccine without significant ill-effects, and when you can see the way the covid death rate has come down in this country since the vaccine was introduced, is it maybe time to accept the answers?

@Platax yes that's my point doctors are human and mistakes although in child's cases I question this because when I spoke to my GP who has know me pretty much my whole life they said they should have give antibiotics post op, so it's 3 doctors and a policy issue...see my point? Yes I let them treat my child because they finally took us seriously but I had to fight for it!

Yes millions of people have had vaccine, but when you say no side effects are you sure? How about long term? VARS and Yellow Card reporting is not mandatory so capture maybe 10%.

If you want people to trust the data then make it right...

1. Make yellow card reporting mandatory.
2. Remove liability from pharmaceutical companies.
3. Release data used to approve vaccine for EUA so it can be scientifically debated rather than censor people with opposing opions.

Your missing point if you want people to trust vaccine, bullying, coercion and secrecy around data used to approve is not the way to go. Especially give pharmaceutical industry historical crimes

@platax More a comment on the current Australian government message/approach.

Not read all 26 pages, but if anybody has got a credible link to the latest ICU data that would be very helpful.

It certainly isn’t helpful when you have the less specific ‘90% of people in hospital with Covid are unvaxxed’ trotted out because that is a blatant lie. It’s more like 35% (or was at the last count).

@MummyPop00

Not read all 26 pages, but if anybody has got a credible link to the latest ICU data that would be very helpful.

It certainly isn’t helpful when you have the less specific ‘90% of people in hospital with Covid are unvaxxed’ trotted out because that is a blatant lie. It’s more like 35% (or was at the last count).

As explained above, the "more than 90% unvaccinated" statement made by the NHS refers only to patients in ICU since July who have had to be put on ventilators - i.e. the most seriously ill.

‘As explained above, the "more than 90% unvaccinated" statement made by the NHS refers only to patients in ICU since July who have had to be put on ventilators - i.e. the most seriously ill.’

Has this data been formally released anywhere?

I’ve never met an ‘anti-vaxxer’ who actually agrees with vaccines, thinks they have saved millions of lives, thinks we should prioritise it for vulnerable groups (including hcps and vulnerable in developing countries) and prioritise boosters here in the U.K. to reduce hospital figures(which is already starting to work) but apparently, despite thinking and stating all those things I am ‘antivax’ because I disagree with mandatory/coerced vaccination and vaccine passports.

I am surprised you are so surprised to be called an antivaxxer. A quick glance through your posting history on the subject of vaccines shows some very 'interesting' views and multiple/scores of and repeated accusations by many other posters on multiple threads across many years - well before Covid - calling you an anti-vaxxer. It seems a little disingenuous to be clutching the smelling salts over this now, unless you have memory problems I suppose.

Not ‘clutching my smelling salts’ at all. MN has always been a bit strange when it comes to accusing people of being ‘antivaxx’ (see above single measles vaccine example) I’m happy to state what my opinions are, and have done above, I don’t think they’re antivaxx (nor do many others) but you’re quite entitled to think otherwise.

@justaskingagain

With lots of sanctimonious sound bites from the nurses and doctors lowering themselves to treat them who clearly feel they are going above and beyond.

That, @Mincepiepoptarts, is a pretty vile thing to say. Medical staff who are on the front line and have been throughout- to the detriment of their own mental and physical health - share their first hand experiences and you call them sanctimonious?!?! Wow. Just wow.

I was about to say much the same thing but you have put it much better.

Those who keep throwing the term 'antivaxxer' at anyone who questions the narrative of vaccine worship seem to me to be the ones incapable of critical thought within this debate.

Personally, I think it shows a lack of intelligence to not be concerned on some level about medical coercion on a national scale.

I also think it shows a lack of intelligence to not be concerned - as a woman - about the fact that side effects specifically related to women's reproductive systems, which have been widely reported - are not being investigated. Pharmaceutical companies have historically excluded women from medical trials due to treating the male body as the norm, despite women's hormonal and biological differences making medicine often behave very differently when taken by us. It's already been made clear that there's a gendered difference in vaccine side effects. That concerns me, because I know the medical research on the vaccine technologies has not been done on a sex-based basis. As a woman, I think I have every right to be cautious about having something injected into me that hasn't been tested on sufficient numbers of female bodies.

I have had my vaccines - not because I feel I medically need them - but because I know my life will increasingly become more difficult if I don't have them. Again, I don't think it makes me a 'thicko' to be concerned that I have been placed in this position in a supposed free and democratic society. Personally I think only people vulnerable to bad side effects of illnesses should have vaccines - over medicalisation of society will eventually lead to drug inefficiency - that's where we're heading with antibiotics. In my view, the vaccine should have been given to all over 50s and clinically vulnerable the world over before even thinking about people younger than that, to ensure the most vulnerable globally were protected as quickly as possible. However, the vaccine hysteria has well and truly taken over in the West, we've selfishly hoarded the global supply of vaccines to ensure we're all vaccinated several times over (and screw everyone else who didn't get there first!) and now we're in the position whereby people with a fraction of a percentage chance of becoming very ill with a disease are being told they can't work, travel or even go out to eat without being forcibly vaccinated. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence must surely be able to see that this really doesn't make a huge amount of sense.

So I will continue to question despite having had my vaccines. I do trust scientists and government officials - up to a certain point. But the thing is, wherever money exchanges hands, corruption doesn't lie far behind. The vaccine industry is making a lot of people a lot of money. It's very naive to not keep your eyes open to that fact.

@EnidSpyton where is the standing ovation emoji? 👏

@MummyPop00

‘As explained above, the "more than 90% unvaccinated" statement made by the NHS refers only to patients in ICU since July who have had to be put on ventilators - i.e. the most seriously ill.’

Has this data been formally released anywhere?

Not as far as I'm aware. It was simply a statement by the NHS. But it has been confirmed by many doctors and nurses around the country that the worst cases in ICU are having to be mechanically ventilated and more than 90% of them (94% was the figure given by the NHS) have not been fully vaccinated.

Back near the start of the pandemic, half of those on ventilators ultimately died. I think patient management has improved since then, but being on a ventilator usually means having to be put into a coma to cope, and is a seriously unpleasant experience.

@EnidSpyton fab post.