90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

not true... lol... and also irrelevant. You all need to stop making sick people out to be burdens. Or if not, I guess you need to start the campaign to ban drunks and not treat smoker cancer patients to name only two things. Stop swallowing the propaganda and turning on people like you have been told to. This is a free country. You are free to get Coronavirus. You are free to refuse any medical treatment, this includes the vaccine. I would like to ask people trying to force others into medical treatment to kindly shut up.

I agree re some of the attacks on posters like Bumbley which are not on but I do think fast vaccine development has been incredible and is saving us a huge amount of damage. So I’m not ready to do the money / corruption line.

@MarshaBradyo

I agree re some of the attacks on posters like Bumbley which are not on but I do think fast vaccine development has been incredible and is saving us a huge amount of damage. So I’m not ready to do the money / corruption line.

Don't you think it's a coincidence that the only not for profit vaccine - AstraZeneca - is the only vaccine whose side effects were considered severe enough to stop many countries from wanting to use it?

Funnily enough, despite Pfizer and Moderna having been proven to cause myocarditis in young people, no change in vaccine usage has been recommended.

There is no material difference in the numbers of deaths between the different types of vaccines.

But only the one who doesn't make anyone any money is the one whose usage has been restricted.

Crises always bring the profiteers crawling out of the woodwork.

The vaccine and testing industry is a huge money spinner for a lot of people who would like to maximise their colossal income from coronavirus for as long as they can. Many of these people also have connections to government officials. Funnily enough.

I'm not saying that doesn't make the vaccine safe or effective. I'm just saying the vaccine isn't, and never has been, about the common good. If it were, the pharma companies would have given it away for free and we wouldn't have millions of people dying in the developing world because their countries can't pay for it.

@EnidSpyton

Those who keep throwing the term 'antivaxxer' at anyone who questions the narrative of vaccine worship seem to me to be the ones incapable of critical thought within this debate.

Personally, I think it shows a lack of intelligence to not be concerned on some level about medical coercion on a national scale.

I also think it shows a lack of intelligence to not be concerned - as a woman - about the fact that side effects specifically related to women's reproductive systems, which have been widely reported - are not being investigated. Pharmaceutical companies have historically excluded women from medical trials due to treating the male body as the norm, despite women's hormonal and biological differences making medicine often behave very differently when taken by us. It's already been made clear that there's a gendered difference in vaccine side effects. That concerns me, because I know the medical research on the vaccine technologies has not been done on a sex-based basis. As a woman, I think I have every right to be cautious about having something injected into me that hasn't been tested on sufficient numbers of female bodies.

I have had my vaccines - not because I feel I medically need them - but because I know my life will increasingly become more difficult if I don't have them. Again, I don't think it makes me a 'thicko' to be concerned that I have been placed in this position in a supposed free and democratic society. Personally I think only people vulnerable to bad side effects of illnesses should have vaccines - over medicalisation of society will eventually lead to drug inefficiency - that's where we're heading with antibiotics. In my view, the vaccine should have been given to all over 50s and clinically vulnerable the world over before even thinking about people younger than that, to ensure the most vulnerable globally were protected as quickly as possible. However, the vaccine hysteria has well and truly taken over in the West, we've selfishly hoarded the global supply of vaccines to ensure we're all vaccinated several times over (and screw everyone else who didn't get there first!) and now we're in the position whereby people with a fraction of a percentage chance of becoming very ill with a disease are being told they can't work, travel or even go out to eat without being forcibly vaccinated. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence must surely be able to see that this really doesn't make a huge amount of sense.

So I will continue to question despite having had my vaccines. I do trust scientists and government officials - up to a certain point. But the thing is, wherever money exchanges hands, corruption doesn't lie far behind. The vaccine industry is making a lot of people a lot of money. It's very naive to not keep your eyes open to that fact.

Great post - I feel the same.

Enid so by that measure AZ has done something very good. If you listen to the Oxford team and their vision it was always about low cost, easy to transport, accessible vaccine for poorer countries.

I agree it’s a shame they have been maligned in many ways though. The attacks have been wrong imo

One hundred per cent of the vey sick covid positive pregnant women I have looked after, have been unvaccinated.

Well said @EnidSpyton

The vaccine industry is making a lot of people a lot of money. It's very naive to not keep your eyes open to that fact.

It's funny, there's a thread about overweight children at the moment and a lot of posters are commenting on the fact that the food industry is unscrupulous and will make unhealthy foods addictive to keep people buying them to the detriment of children (and everyone).

This seems to be widely accepted, it's funny that asking the same questions of pharmaceutical companies seems to make you an anti vaxxer (even if you've been vaccinated!) and a conspiracy theorist.

It makes me nervous because without vaccination we would be in a hugely damaging cycle of lockdown and high deaths overwhelmed healthcare

Without that fast production I’m not sure people realise how bad it would be.

@innocenta if you (or anyone else) wants to accuse me of something then please do it outright and quote what I’ve said specifically that you’re objecting to rather than making pathetic snidey little comments. Is it my position on mandatory vaccines/passports (against) that bothers you? Or that I agree with the WHO that we should prioritise vaccines for vulnerable people/hcps in developing countries over lower risk healthy people in developed countries? Or that we should be prioritising boosters for the elderly to reduce hospital numbers here in the U.K. (already starting to see the impact of that thankfully)? I’m curious to know what you find so ‘chilling’ :)

@MarshaBradyo yes, and iirc, one of the leading developers of the AZ vaccine, Dame Sarah Gilbert, actually came said that she didn’t think boosters would be necessary for all - just the most vulnerable groups- and that we should prioritise vaccinating the vulnerable in other countries.

I think they all are. It's chilling - to see the relentless battle against something so innocuous and so well-meant.

@Innocenta - Dictionary definition of the word innocuous is...

1: producing no injury : HARMLESS
2: not likely to give offense or to arouse strong feelings or hostility : INOFFENSIVE, INSIPID

Not quite sure why you'd pick this particular word to describe vaccines that have caused worldwide protests and confirmed vaccine injuires/deaths but please feel free to enlighten me.

Considering the fact that the pharmaceutical companies are making billions in profit I'm not sure I'd consider their intentions wholly well meant or altruistic either but there you go.

The word 'chilling' however, describes how I feel perfectly when I read comments gloating over the fact that fellow human beings might be excluded from society or forced against their will to have an injection they don't consent to. I think it's the whole reason why we battle so relentlessy.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but I’m not naive either.
When you see headlines like this, you know that there will be those in whose favour it is to keep us fearful.

www.cityam.com/blackrock-and-vanguard-rake-in-billions-omicron-variant-made-moderna-and-pfizer-shareholders-10bn-in-a-week/

I was perfectly explicit about what I find to be chilling:

the relentless battle against something so innocuous and so well-meant

If I had been alluding to some particular comment of yours, @bumbleymummy - I would have said so. You cannot deny that you have been posting in this same vein, copiously, for quite some time. As such, you are a good soldier in the relentless battle, aren't you?

@nojudgementhere Invoking dictionary definition is an inherently fallacious tactic in argument. Dictionaries are not an objective truth; they are a subjective, man-made, 'agreed' truth. As such, their use in argument as a hard-truth touchstone is generally irrelevant.

I am grateful that certain posters stick to their names and their convictions so I can just avoid all posts by them. Saves time.

This is pure propaganda, what about the winter before when people weren't vaccinated, doing the same old pitting people against each other the NHS is on its knees because of the government's lack of funding and winding services down, ask the ones that with there! How dare they blame others

Because a post op patient may only need to be using that bed for a couple of hours or a day or two.... Covid patients can be in them for days or weeks

Each ICU bed costs a minimum of £1,000 per bed to run, some more like £2,000 depending on the needs.

If we were in the USA, and instead of the "taxpayer" paying, it was individuals, I suspect that more people would be vaccinated.

As for those saying its lack of funding, that's not true. There are a limited number of professionally skilled people able to run an ITU bed, you can't just magic them up. It takes years of experience and training.

The whole thing is heartbreaking, but I can understand medical staff finding it incredibly frustrating that because of lies being spread, some people haven't had the vaccine and are therefore occupying capacity that is needed for other life saving treatment.

If it was your dad, sister or children that needed urgent life saving treatment, wouldn't you be angry at people spreading lies about the vaccine?

@EnidSpyton It's the most basic summary of the first principles of lexicography, as it is understood in the present day. Understandably, the field has gone through some changes over the past few hundred years.

I'm not sure why you're lowering yourself to florid ad hominem; if you actually disagree in a meaningful way, feel free to share!

@WoodyGd

I manage a surgical service across two hospital sites.

The worst part of my job is calling patients to tell them their surgery is cancelled due to no ITU bed. These are not people who are having some routine minor surgery, they need ITU because they are due for major life saving surgery.

They’ve planned their time off, they’ve isolated, they’ve been swabbed, they’ve had countless appointments/tests/pre ops and then they get me on the phone saying “sorry no go”.

The worst part is that you don’t know how it will go until the day before. There is a meeting first thing everyday to see if any patients can stepped down from ITU to a normal bed. If it’s a no then it’s a case of, ok there’s one bed, who gets it? We have specialities fighting each other for the chance to go ahead, pitting cancer against cancer or AAAs. Patients losing limbs because the bypass they need can’t be done because there isn’t a bed for them afterwards (might as well just take the limb once the leg is rotten enough).

All so some thicko can practice his or her right to not be vaccinated. It’s disgusting.

I already know I’ll have a cancellation this morning, it’s beyond bloody depressing

Repeatedly doing that will become traumatic for you, not just the patients whose surgery is cancelled. It’s horrific that people whose lives depend on having their surgery quickly will suffer and die due to the anti-vaxers. 🤬😢

Funny how some people who throw around accusations about others being anti-vaxx on here can never actually seem to back up their accusations and point to something specific. It’s all a bit ‘I don’t like your opinion so I’m going to try to discredit you’. Lame.

@Desithebulldog

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

It really does sound awful! Apparently though, it is incorrect. There are loads (technical term/sorry don't know how many) of complaints to ofcom as this figure keeps being used in the news and on TV programmes, but it is wrong and fact checkers (full fact I think) say majority are vaccinated. I really hope someone (i.e. TV news etc) updates the story as it's really misleading.