90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

[quote bumbleymummy]@platax. Sure. There are plenty of young/healthy people that die from flu every year too. We do let people make up their own minds about having the flu vaccine though and don’t suggest that they should be denied treatment if they don’t have it.[/quote]
The flu vaccine isn't offered to young healthy people on the NHS.

@Platax on its own no where that I can find, however in last book it does mention accepting mark in relation to buying and selling which if you look at vaccine and no jab no job its to close for me.

It also talks about nations been deceived by drugs.

Additionally I firmly believe natural immunity is also important to maintain healty immune system using drugs for a disease majority will not have an issue doesn't make sense. That said I do believe vaccines have an important role but should be for benefit of person taking them we should not be bullying, threatening and certainly not treating anyone differently based on personal choice that for me is where the evil part is.

I believe God gave us the gift of intelligence to be able to help ourselves but like everything it can be used by other side to harm.

But again as I have said if vaccine was a choice, without all the add ons then I may feel differently but I don't like where this is leading us it is not going to end will

Have to say I was a bit shocked when @bumbleymummy said she was a doctor. There are lots of medical inaccuracies in her posts - so not a medical doctor I would say.

The best poster here - by far and away - is @ollyoxenfree. Excellent medical advice.

I find it rather worrying that some people take the bible (which is as unscientfic as you can get) so literally that it means that they won't be more open minded about modern medicine.

Do these same people refuse blood transfusions as well?

An earlier PP asked if early insulin prodution was humane. No it was most definitely not.

Do these same people refuse blood transfusions as well?

Yes they do!

@RampantIvy actually there is evidence to suggest some events in Bible actually happened. Additionally there is a scientific reason for a number of things in Bible...

1. Not eating pork...probably came about because if not cooked properly can cause parasites....

1. No sex before marriage/ no adultery probably came about to prevent stds...

That's just 2. I honestly can't believe people blindly believe Pharmaceutical companies (who are known to be corrupt), Regulators (who do get things wrong), NHS who constantly ignore people's concerns because they think they know everything like when we were ignored when my son got infection after surgery...

It also shocks me that people would rather target a person's faith, than discuss the other issues I mentioned.

Like I said if it was vaccine on own, I may have got it, but its the hate for people who majority have genuine concerns, the new covid religion and blind faith in NHS and government.

If you want people to trust vaccine then it's simple the big one is simply remove indemnity protection of pharmaceutical companies... release data that regulators used to approve vaccine and stop censoring debate, have scientific debates on TV where points can be argued...that's how you build trust, not attacks threats and bullying

It’s really sad that people not trusting the government/ pharma companies is causing them to die though, isn’t it?

I mean, if the government really want to make our lives difficult and control us, they really could do it.

It’s sad that this misplaced mistrust is causing other people to die too since they can’t get their icu bed.

It isn’t ok.

@pianolessons1 that's fine you keep to your covid religion and I will keep to mine, unlike you I am able to look at history and see none of this is going to end well. Please don't bother answering if all you are going to is personal or religious attacks rather than come back with actual arguments to my points

@Staryflight445

1. Is this same pharmaceutical companies that have a history of unethical actions...I mean Pfizer got fined $2.3billion for hiding trial data to get positive outcome and bribing doctors..also accused of conducting illegal drug trial in Nigeria causing 10 out of 200 kids to die....or fact that the polio opv vaccine is sold in developing world because its cheaper but has caused cases of vaccine associated polio rare but happens... should I have blindly trusted the doctors who told me my son was fine when he had infection....when in fact he ended up on IV antibodics in hospital...or the fact some events were missing from his medical file?

1. Governments that have in past conducted unethical medical experiments as well? Or regulators who have approved drugs only for them to be withdrawn later? I mean seriously I would trust Boris to tell me water is wet....the guy is incapable of telling the truth

We should always question rules and science its how we learn, blind faith in government, corporations and medical professionals

As I Christian I just want to balance out the conspiracy madness here a little. Me and the vast vast majority of the Christians I know have happily had the vaccine and booster for those eligible. We are grateful for the scientists who have put so much work into this much needed vaccine. I as a CEV person am so relieved it's available. When I see posts like those of @Unimpressed2021 I'm flummoxed and saddened (and end up going down huge rabbit holes about the etymology of certain Greek words, ending up on some random toxic Facebook page named 'I am awake' (WAKE UP!!! DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!! ETC!!!!)

Anyway. If you want to talk etymologies, perhaps have a more in depth look at the word in Revelation you're referring to. Its meaning was magic spells and/or drugs (as in the mind altering sort). It was never used in terms of prescribed medication. Just because it might be the root of a word doesn't mean it encapsulated how we read the word (as in all etymology.) It was written to a culture who practiced sorcery with psychedelic drugs. Not quite Pfizer, is it? I'm not a literalist but even if I was I'd be twisting this beyond the bounds of reality to get what you're getting out of it.

I'd suggest looking at the message of the gospels and scripture overall - the overwhelming message is to defend the rights of the oppressed, and love one another. I've seen so much disregard for others throughout all of this and it just breaks me.

I don't usually get too angry with people, but honestly, this boils my piss. This misinformation is killing people and I am so, so done with it all.

@Madhairday 👏🏻 👏🏻

[quote Unimpressed2021]@pianolessons1 that's fine you keep to your covid religion and I will keep to mine, unlike you I am able to look at history and see none of this is going to end well. Please don't bother answering if all you are going to is personal or religious attacks rather than come back with actual arguments to my points[/quote]

I think there is only one religion I know who are actively against medical interventions. I went to a RC school and a person of that religion taught there. It was well known he lost a baby as said baby needed a blood transfusion. So sad.
I know lots of people of different Christian faiths and barl one has been vaccinated but this oerdom has always been anti vax and into alternative health and withholding whole food groups from her child as she believed they had allergies. Said child is now 20 and eats what he wants with no ill effect but the damage was probably already done.

@Madhairday I actually have no issue vaccine on its own its how its been forced that bothers me.

And actually if you look up strongs definition it means use of drugs....again that's my view and it's reinforced by opions of medical professionals on here advocating not treating unvaccinated or Churches turning away unvaccinated which is very unChristian but everyone is entitled to opion. For me it's only one component of a number of issues which everyone is ignoring.

Just like Churches that made us feel unwelcome because we have non verbal autistic child, hence I don't put faith in Church but Christ and what is in Bible

The idea of idiots not getting vaccinated because they think it's the mark of the beast would be funny if they couldn't infect other people.

Just like Churches that made us feel unwelcome because we have non verbal autistic child, hence I don't put faith in Church but Christ and what is in Bible

Oh god, the idea of you looking after someone vulnerable is terrifying. I hope you don't deny them medical treatment.

This thread is bloody bonkers.

@depremesnil actually no I would not which is probably why he ended up in hospital on IV antibodics after surgery and been dismissed as stupid parents when we took him back 3 times.....they are also vaccinated with all ormal child vaccines, they have also been to GP due to various colds tonsillitis and ear infections. Like I have pointed out numerous times the vaccine on its own no issues, would I tell someone not to take it, no would I tell someone to take it no, would I care if someone has no.

And the fact you assume I wouldn't do what's best for my child is offensive, I have paid alot of money for private speech therapy, paediatrician and OT because NHS services are non existant.

But typical jumping to assumptions

I admit to being quite a @bumbleymummy fan! I do admire how you manage to keep so cool and persist with your calm posts despite a lot of opposition. It's always good to hear other views, otherwise this would indeed be a very dull (if peaceful) world.

Me too crunchycarrot.....

@CrunchyCarrot

I admit to being quite a *@bumbleymummy* fan! I do admire how you manage to keep so cool and persist with your calm posts despite a lot of opposition. It's always good to hear other views, otherwise this would indeed be a very dull (if peaceful) world.

I agree with this, personal attacks and trying to get people to stop posting isn’t the right way to go.

@Flaxmeadow “ One question I like to ask is "you won't take the vaccine but are you glad so many others have?" Because you know deep down they are glad, happy to let others do it, but they have sooo much trouble admitting it not just to you, but to themselves”

You seem to be suggesting that people are relying on herd immunity in this post. I think it’s been established that the vaccine, while providing protection against serious illness for the individual, is not great at preventing infection/transmission. You’ve probably noticed that talk about reaching the HIT has waned somewhat in recent months.

@RampantIvy

I find it rather worrying that some people take the bible (which is as unscientfic as you can get) so literally that it means that they won't be more open minded about modern medicine.

Do these same people refuse blood transfusions as well?

An earlier PP asked if early insulin prodution was humane. No it was most definitely not.

There are people who refuse all medical intervention in place of prayer. I agree they have the right to refuse medical treatment if they wish. No matter how bonkers the rest of us feel. Thankfully, sanity does usually prevail when it's their minor children they are refusing life saving care for, though, and the state generally steps in.

@Northsoutheastwest76 that's sad and really shouldn't happen, I know the faith you talk about but there are others Dutch Reform Church as well. As I have tried to point out the vaccine/medicine on its own I don't see an issue with having vaccinated my kids, my child needed surgery, we felt they were too young and 2 small 1 year old and on low end of percentile surgeon pressured us into it, we trusted him, after surgery no antibiotics given told this is normal (high risk of infection surgery due to age and location surgery was medically necessary) again trusted him went home 3 days later back at hospital child had fever and projectile vomiting told give them calpol, temp came done told to go home. No blood tests. 4th day went back now vomiting, fever and delirium. Told give them calpol kept in till temp went then sent home again no blood work...5th day surgeon saw then took off bandage it was swollen and red told its fine go home just let them drink first, saw bottle and vomited nurse got us admitted and they spent next 5 days on IV antibodics they were borderline sepsis according to bloodwork... I don't think medicine itself is bad. I just don't like were society is heading because of how people are beeb divided it does not sit well with me as a Christian.

I believe on choice and as part of that the right to see why decisions are made ie drug approval.

I love my kids and would deny them nothing but I want to see why decisions are made, debate around why this is been withheld. With older vaccines you can look at data see long term safety data and so on. Just like with Childs surgery I was told risks of doing it vs not and made a choice based on that information to do the surgery. Same when they are sick, GP tells me what's wrong I consider that and take their advice, such as giving antibiotics when they need them.