Germany bans unvaccinated from shops and pubs.

[Ratched]

We really are going to end up with a two tier society. It's actually quite worrying.

I am NOT anti vaxx, just concerned at how we are sleep walking into giving away our hard won freedoms.

@Ratched - It made perfect sense & you expressed your thoughts beautifully. I agree with every word. Thank you.

Innocenta I do understand your point and I am aware of the complexities surrounding organ transplants. A person who is declined a transplant would still receive care and support from HCP’s.

@Ratched you made perfect sense to me too.

This is enormous. It’s too complicated, too huge to be able to put into words succinctly.

@Grapewrath

Well let’s see how well it works in Germany in limiting spread. I suspect not very well at all. It’s a shame for the hospitality industry who are no doubt already struggling I’m not vaccinated and this rule wouldn’t make me get vaccinated. Taking away my freedom to force me into getting a vaccine makes me trust it even less. I don’t care for pubs and I’ll shop online.

The spread isn't an issue if symptoms are mild enough not to cause hospitalisation. We need to focus on those that catch it and aren't hospitalized. That is the measure of the vaccination programme

We are in a predicament which involves all of us. The only way out is for us all to take responsibility for the greater good. I don’t know about those who have medical reasons for opting out as it appears that the medically vulnerable are being encouraged to have it. It’s acknowledged if we were all vaccinated we stand a good chance of eliminating COVID or lessening it’s effect on us. We need to have a majority take up to save our economy, our sanity and well being. Those who bleat about democracy and individual choice are denying us all a chance to get back to a normal life.

We have converted buses here transferring patients between ICUs because they are full. You can see pictures of them in this article. It's worrying in case you end up with any other condition that needs ICU treatment.

www.ka-news.de/fotos/bilddetail/ulmer-corona-intensivbus-erreicht-karlsruhe;cme523411,2100160

I don't agree with mandatory vaccination. I would never ever agree with restriction of medical care to unvaccinated people. I don't agree with blocking access to essential services (medical care, essential shops, public transport, education, work) without a vaccine, I don't like what the NHS is proposing for staff. But I don't think that restricted access to particularly problematic venues like pubs, clubs, etc temporarily while numbers are very high is a huge problem. It's actually an option that allows people the most choice. I'm much more happy with that than enforced vaccination or anything else.

Germany is not terrible with mental health (OK, not great either) - I think if somebody was extremely distressed by the thought of having the vaccine it might be possible to get a medical exemption (perhaps temporary) on the grounds of mental health. I think certainly it would be explored, the person wouldn't just be carted off for antipsychotics! But I have to admit I do not know anybody in that position.

I've been saying the same thing for ages though. If we get into a situation where cases/hospital admissions are rising because people won't get vaccinated, then there are two choices:

Everybody experiences social restrictions to keep the unvaccinated safe.

Or

The unvaccinated experience social restrictions to keep themselves safe.

The issue of people who can't have the vaccine clouds things a bit of course.
But generally it's fairly simple. The second course of action damages the economy less and allows people to take responsibility for their own health. Either by getting the vaccine or by staying at home.

antipsychotic prescription.

So in order to have a vaccine, you'd need to put another substance in your body! Ironic.

Oh well the link doesn't work because of the comma but you can copy and paste if you really want to see the ambu-bus.

As someone who is clinically extremely vulnerable and can’t have the vaccine because of multiple reasons, the main one being I have an allergy to something that was never fully worked out what it was and after nearly dying from pulmonary oedema due to an undiscovered heart condition, as I recovered from that, I then had a very serious rash which meant I lost 5 layers of my skin over 6 weeks, it was very dangerous especially if it had got into my mouth or my throat which thankfully it didn’t, and I was advised to go into hospital and stay in the sterile burns unit (which I declined as my mum was a nurse and I felt I would be better at home as I cannot sleep in hospitals). 5 drs spent 3 months going over my notes and still could not work out what I was allergic to. So yeah I can’t have the vaccine, and I’m terrified that what is happening in Germany will happen here.

@Twilight7777 so you are CEV, you cant be vaccinated and your greatest fear is not being able to go to nightclubs?

People have the right to not want to be infected by those who choose not to take up the offer of the vaccine But if your vaccine doesn't protect you, how will my vaccine protect you?

Personally I believe in personal choice here. There are risks associated with any vaccine. I'm doubled vaxxed and had the booster, I'm prepared to take that risk but i understand others may not want to and I believe that's their right.

Germany implementing mandatory vaccinations absolutely horrifies me.

@Twilight7777 I can't have the vaccine either but getting a medical exemption is nigh on impossible.
I honestly think if it were made mandatory in the UK I'd have to end things.

@Chr1stmasCarole

I've been saying the same thing for ages though. If we get into a situation where cases/hospital admissions are rising because people won't get vaccinated, then there are two choices:

Everybody experiences social restrictions to keep the unvaccinated safe.

Or

The unvaccinated experience social restrictions to keep themselves safe.

The issue of people who can't have the vaccine clouds things a bit of course.
But generally it's fairly simple. The second course of action damages the economy less and allows people to take responsibility for their own health. Either by getting the vaccine or by staying at home.

Following your logic I suppose we should also be asking anybody who is CEV, obese or elderly to experience social restrictions to keep themselves safe too? What a horrific and divided world you seem to wish to live in!

@Porcupineintherough where do you get nightclubs from? We are terrified of fines and imprisonment!

Whenever I see anyone using the phrase "for the greater good", it gives me the shudders.

@BertieBotts you make a lot of sense.

@nojudgementhere I don't wish this at all, what I'd like is for the whole pandemic to be over frankly. But at present it isn't so we have to choose the least worst scenario.

We already have been asking certain at risk groups if people to shield so that's not new is it?

The unvaccinated people had a choice and when we make a choice we accept it's consequences.

For what it's worth, I am obese, quite seriously. It could be that it was decided that I was a risk and needed to isolate too. At that point I'd know I had a choice. Work my backside off to get my BMI under the cut off as soon as possible or isolate.

I don't like this any more than you do, but going back to full lockdown, and making heathy, vaccinated people sit at home whilst the economy tanks just so that thinks can be "fair" is just frankly a bonkers plan.

All's well and good until it's something you personally don't want to put into your body.

@Gearedtoyou

Yes, it's shocking. I think everyone who can have the vaccine should have the vaccine and I understand governments want/need to get rates up, but this?

OTOH what is the answer?

Does it apply to people who work in shops and bars?

I don't have a link so I apologise But in Austria, with the lockdown of the unvaccinated, they were allowed to work in a bar etc but not visit one as a customer.

Bertie - thank you for the info. I had been vaguely aware that things were worse in Germany but I didn't know how much worse with the 2G, 3G etc.

@MaxNormal

Germany implementing mandatory vaccinations absolutely horrifies me.

@Twilight7777 I can't have the vaccine either but getting a medical exemption is nigh on impossible.
I honestly think if it were made mandatory in the UK I'd have to end things.

It's possible to get an exemption if there's a definite, specific medical reason why it would be unsafe.

That's not the same as having concerns about it. By all means, seek additional information and support - this should be available to everyone! No one should feel harassed or scared when receiving a vaccine. But part of the need for things like mandates is the way people distort things like exemptions when there is any self reporting involved - look at the issues with mask exemption.

@chocolatesweets

All's well and good until it's something you personally don't want to put into your body.

That's so vague, though. Can you actually give an example? What are you afraid will be mandated next?

What do you think will be mandated for those of us who would support a vaccine mandate, that we will find so upsetting?

(I don't think we'll have a mandate in the UK, anyway.)

@chocolateicecream

Innocenta I do understand your point and I am aware of the complexities surrounding organ transplants. A person who is declined a transplant would still receive care and support from HCP’s.

And I think unvaccinated people should still receive medical care. I've never said otherwise. I'm not of the 'No ITU care or any Covid care for them' school of thought, at all.

@Chr1stmasCarole - I don't mean to be cruel but if you have a high BMI then your risk factor will still exceed many of the young, healthy unvaccinated even though you are vaccinated, so following your logic you probably should stay at home.

However, in my opinion, the only people who should be at home are people who are infected with Covid or people who need to shield and are supported with doing this. We should therefore look at continuing with testing & making it possible for people to isolate if they need to which is currently not happening and is a large part of the problem.

Locking up healthy vaccinated or unvaccinated is not the way forward and you only need to look at countries like Sweden to realise it's not the only way. To me it smacks of punishment and coercion.

@XenoBitch

Referral to psychiatry for evaluation and (probable) antipsychotic prescription

So no addressing the material this lady has been exposed to? Straight to the "she must be mad", and pump her full of meds?

No. I said 'evaluation'.

But I do think that genuinely believing there are chips in the vaccines displays some very disturbed thinking, yes. Obviously that in itself isn't enough to garner any prescription... hence the need for a psychiatrist.