Germany bans unvaccinated from shops and pubs.

[Ratched]

We really are going to end up with a two tier society. It's actually quite worrying.

I am NOT anti vaxx, just concerned at how we are sleep walking into giving away our hard won freedoms.

Most countries are using the correct vid passport. The British press are sensationalising Germany for some reason.

I am in spain you need a covid passport to go into bars restaurants etc here too

Entirely sensible in my opinion

If it happens in the UK people who are totally against it need to hit the streets in protest.

At least be heard in real life posting on a digital forum will achieve sweet FA.

@Porcupineintherough

I'm more worried about a total collapse of our health service than I am about a 2 tier society right now. I guess the German government feels similarly.

Once the pandemic has passed I'll join you in demanding a restoration of full freedoms for the unvaccinated but right now they are not my top concern.

This pretty much sums up my feelings, too.

If it only affected the individual, then fair enough.
If someone has a medical reason for not getting vaccinated, then they should of course be exempt.

But if hospitals are struggling because wards are full of unvaccinated patients then that affects everyone. I read recently that at least in one hospital in the UK, every hospitalised covid patient results in 8 cancelled operations.

Approx 700 patients admitted in the UK every day at the moment - so that's potentially up to 5,600 cancelled operations.

@fakereview

People have the right to not want to be infected by those who choose not to take up the offer of the vaccine

If I get ill it's pretty immaterial if someone had the vaccine or didn't. I am still ill.

No, it isn't. The amount of viral load is one factor in how ill a person gets.

@orinocosfavoritecake

Sounds eminently sensible.

Don’t be daft! Outrageous, if people accept this they must have lost their minds.

No, it isn't. The amount of viral load is one factor in how ill a person gets.

But that will be largely down to people being out and about whilst significantly symptomatic which no one should be regardless of their vaccination status.

@fakereview

It caused 73 deaths out of 50 million doses in the UK and saved a million lives. I had AZ and was absolutely grateful to have it. Covid also causes clots

It does and I am also glad to have had it as I was particularly scared about getting long covid.

But 73 deaths is 73 destroyed families and 73 lives taken too early. Those people chose to have the vaccine and the outcome wasn't good. But they chose the risk.

In Austria and Greece, and to a lesser extent Germany and NZ, that choice is being removed. They have to undergo it.

145000 Covid deaths are 145000 real people who have lost their lives, and also left loving, devastated families behind them.

It's mentally easier to understand 73 than 145000. I get that. It's easier for everyone to understand a

I find it hard to believe some people are ok with this? That's more frightening in itself.

@RoseAndRose

What is happening for those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons?

they can get a dr certificate for that.

Sensible

[quote PinkMochi]@Porcupineintherough oh and just to add - I haven’t been able to see a gynaecologist and I’m scared shitless about my condition. Who do I blame? The NHS bosses and government for the mismanagement of the NHS and prioritising a virus (which is mild for most people) over all other conditions. I don’t blame other patients![/quote]
What exactly do you think the "NHS Bosses" should do differently? Refuse treatment to COVID patients? Create capacity with a magic wand? They werent treating the people for who COVID is mild were they?

People being vaccinated and thereby lowering the their chance of being seriously ill is the quickest and simplest way to reduce pressure on hospitals. If you want to double down on "individual freedom to refuse vaccination with a right to treatment if you miscalculate " then your best get used to COVID being pretty much all the health service can cope with this year.

@ChooChooSan

It's not scientifically justified. The vaccinated can pass this on too.🤷

People keep posting this and they can but it's much less likely.

Absolutely appalling.

Where will it stop? Withdrawal of medical treatment to someone who declines a TOP because their baby has an abnormally? Refuse care to someone with a high BMI? A smoker, a substance misuser?

We are not dealing with a HCID here. This is not comparable to Smallpox or Ebola. The NHS has been spiralling for years and the government has not been intent on protecting it. The failings here are not a small minority of anti-vaxers. People should not be loosing body autonomy over this.

@chocolateicecream

Absolutely appalling.

Where will it stop? Withdrawal of medical treatment to someone who declines a TOP because their baby has an abnormally? Refuse care to someone with a high BMI? A smoker, a substance misuser?

We are not dealing with a HCID here. This is not comparable to Smallpox or Ebola. The NHS has been spiralling for years and the government has not been intent on protecting it. The failings here are not a small minority of anti-vaxers. People should not be loosing body autonomy over this.

Are you familiar with how the allocation of transplanted organs works?

Because, yes. We are already doing some of this. It's completely normal in countries with functional, modern transplant programmes.

@RoseAndRose

What is happening for those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons?

If there is a valid medical reason like an allergy to the vaccine then I expect they will be exempt

But not because the lady from number 43 doesn't have it because she thinks it's got a tracking chip in it and she's medically fit to have it otherwise

*If there is a valid medical reason like an allergy to the vaccine then I expect they will be exempt

But not because the lady from number 43 doesn't have it because she thinks it's got a tracking chip in it and she's medically fit to have it otherwise*

What if the lady from number 43 is convinced it does have a tracking chip in it, and it is causing her considerable distress as the thought of being mandated to have it?

Just had my booster this PM, very grateful for it. I am not sleep walking into anything thank you very much! There are restrictions on my liberty that I would die to prevent, this is not one of them!

@Porcupineintherough the NHS is overwhelmed every single Winter. By cancelling or delaying appointments, the larger the waiting lists become. The NHS bosses are poor at budgeting and have huge salaries. This has been known for decades!

Well let’s see how well it works in Germany in limiting spread. I suspect not very well at all. It’s a shame for the hospitality industry who are no doubt already struggling
I’m not vaccinated and this rule wouldn’t make me get vaccinated. Taking away my freedom to force me into getting a vaccine makes me trust it even less. I don’t care for pubs and I’ll shop online.

@XenoBitch

*If there is a valid medical reason like an allergy to the vaccine then I expect they will be exempt

But not because the lady from number 43 doesn't have it because she thinks it's got a tracking chip in it and she's medically fit to have it otherwise*

What if the lady from number 43 is convinced it does have a tracking chip in it, and it is causing her considerable distress as the thought of being mandated to have it?

Referral to psychiatry for evaluation and (probable) antipsychotic prescription.

@PinkMochi and so? Yes it was bad but COVID has made it much, much worse. And as we cant magic it better or even fund it better overnight, all we can do is try to relieve the pressure on it by doing our best not to get hospitalized with a virus that is everywhere to which there is a safe and easily available vaccine.

@frozendaisy

If it happens in the UK people who are totally against it need to hit the streets in protest.

At least be heard in real life posting on a digital forum will achieve sweet FA.

I'll be there as I'm sure will many others. So shortsighted that there are people agreeing with this disgusting discrimination. They are on the wrong side of history and should be ashamed. Would be interested to hear if they are quite so confident spouting their vile views in person?

I am terrible at trying to explain myself, so please try to read between the lines!
My fear when I read things like this, is that we are blindly obeying, with no great rational thought.
People are accepting and promoting the ostracisation (sp)? of a whole raft of the population through fear, well placed perhaps, but prepared to 'punish' according to what the government say. And yes, before you shout at me, I agree that everyone who can be vaccinated, should be. BUT, that is their choice.
There are consequences, evidenced by the threat of losing jobs, but putting aside all the rights and wrongs of vaccination, I just feel as though we are being brought to heel.
Being 'taught' to trust and support- if not promote -what Boris says. Boris says we can party until Tuesday, but MUST stop on Wednesday, else the NHS will collapse.
I have friends who WILL party on Tuesday, then castigate anyone daring to do more than breathe on Wednesday.
The population is being pitted against each other, this is Brexit again, but being well stage managed to prepare us for whatever they decide is necessary next.
Any talk of privatising the NHS 3 or 4 years ago would have been met with horror. Now? Not so much.
I just feel that we are losing grip on the important things, through blind fear, and, in my personal view, this is being encouraged by government, ably assisted by social media.
I do obey. I wear a mask, I have had my booster.
But I still feel uneasy, and the European escalation doesn't help.

Probably makes no sense!

@TomelettewithGreggs

Thanks *@BertieBotts*, that is interesting. Why are they not allowing testing?

I think to encourage people to get vaccinated. You can still get by with a test if you are medically exempt, and this is only for more "optional" type venues and only when rates are high (in our Land it's done by ICU beds filled). Everything will roll back to 3G or no proof of anything required once the ICUs are less full.

Referral to psychiatry for evaluation and (probable) antipsychotic prescription

So no addressing the material this lady has been exposed to? Straight to the "she must be mad", and pump her full of meds?