Germany bans unvaccinated from shops and pubs.

[Ratched]

We really are going to end up with a two tier society. It's actually quite worrying.

I am NOT anti vaxx, just concerned at how we are sleep walking into giving away our hard won freedoms.

I don't think lock up the 'unhealthy' is a great option.

Just imagine, a society so unsafe that when you get your cancer diagnosis, you are also expected to into isolation - even from the other members of your household. And stay that way for months/years

I don't think we have the luxury of worrying about people who believe there are chips in the vaccine just now. Millions are dead, economies are tanking, the NHS is collapsing. They are not on my priority list.

@Innocenta

How odd, I also have a history of anaphylaxis and allergy to multiple medical things, plus a heart condition. Yet have had two AZ and a booster! I feel quite annoyed on your behalf, *@ItsALife* , as you are presumably at somewhat increased risk because of your heart. Sounds like they've really dropped the ball. Don't give up! Keep pushing them - you deserve to be as safe as you can be.

I had an allergic reaction to first jab az but not 2nd az I also have a heart condition. I too have been unable to get a booster as no one will jab me with moderna or Pfizer, I have to have an az booster but no one will write me the letter to authorise it, and there are only limited clinics with az boosters and it requires a doctor or consultants letter to be able to make an appointment. 10 days of chasing my tail to try and get a letter or a jab amd I am getting nowhere.

I am very pro vaccine but I don't think anyone should be forced to get one. Won't Germans who don't want to be vaccinated but DO want to visit shops etc seek out those with covid and get infected so that they get the same exemption with no vaccination?

@ClarasZoo

I am very pro vaccine but I don't think anyone should be forced to get one. Won't Germans who don't want to be vaccinated but DO want to visit shops etc seek out those with covid and get infected so that they get the same exemption with no vaccination?

That is a valid concern, isn't it. That people will seek to get infected so they can tick a box.

I get the impression that a lot of posters don’t realise that most rights are not absolute. The right to privacy - something I’m particularly concerned with - and freedom of speech both have limits, for example. Those limits or exceptions come into play when there is another concern like national security or prevention/investigation of crime that outweighs them.

If it is likely that restricting the movement of unvaccinated people were to bring significant benefits in the form of lower rates of serious illness, hospitalisation, less chance of going back into lockdown and so on, I’d absolutely see that as an acceptable trade-off.

Op really needn’t worry that people who are ok with this haven’t engaged their brains. Being ok with some restrictions for some people based on their own choices - IF backed up with evidence that this is reasonably likely to be in the interests of the greater good - is a long way from fascism, ‘medieval segregation’ or a number of other things alleged on this thread. It’s interesting that some posters have contrasted Covid with diseases like Ebola, which would suggest they too would accept this in principle, but just that the bar for it being acceptable is higher for them.

I think public support for the absolute right to do what you want when it has health and freedom of movement consequences for everyone without consequence is lower than some hope.

@mumofpickles That's just awful, you poor thing. I think there hasn't been even close to enough support for people who have had adverse reactions, and of course allergic reactions are one of the scariest sorts. I'm so sorry it's all been so difficult

@Twilight7777

As someone who is clinically extremely vulnerable and can’t have the vaccine because of multiple reasons, the main one being I have an allergy to something that was never fully worked out what it was and after nearly dying from pulmonary oedema due to an undiscovered heart condition, as I recovered from that, I then had a very serious rash which meant I lost 5 layers of my skin over 6 weeks, it was very dangerous especially if it had got into my mouth or my throat which thankfully it didn’t, and I was advised to go into hospital and stay in the sterile burns unit (which I declined as my mum was a nurse and I felt I would be better at home as I cannot sleep in hospitals). 5 drs spent 3 months going over my notes and still could not work out what I was allergic to. So yeah I can’t have the vaccine, and I’m terrified that what is happening in Germany will happen here.

If someone can't have a vaccine for medical reasons that is different to the can't be bothered attitude I've one across

All the people I know currently ( three of whom are quite ill) with covid are double vaccinated. They have then passed it to family members. I am against vaccine mandates because you can still catch and pass the virus having been jabbed. If it stopped the virus transmission I could understand it more.

I hate this coercion. I have now had 3 jabs so am not an antivaxxer. However, I am not going to lie and virtue signal to say I did this for the benefit of wider society, I ended up having them to try and protect my health as I have underlying conditions.

Maybe addicts will be next, as addiction is often linked to crime and that affects wider society. Or maybe those with obesity should be punished as they take up resources from wider society.

I fundamentally am against dividing society like this on health grounds, it’s a bit like the concept of deserving or undeserving poor.

I do not wish to be a part of a society and culture which China promotes of social credits and tracking to implement ‘desirable’ behaviours.

- I don't mean to be cruel but if you have a high BMI then your risk factor will still exceed many of the young, healthy unvaccinated even though you are vaccinated, so following your logic you probably should stay at home.
@nojudgementhere

but this has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion does it, so actually none of your business what I should or shouldn't do..... I will follow the rules and the medical advice.

As to the rest, I really, really hope that we can manage to keep things under control by testing and vaccinating those who are willing..... but if we can't, like it or not tough decisions have to be made and I stick with my point. If isolating only the unvaccinated works and enables us to keep the economy going then that has got to be a better option than locking everybody down in the name of "fairness".

@clopper
I do not wish to be a part of a society and culture which China promotes of social credits and tracking to implement ‘desirable’ behaviours

There is already talk of a Gov app being rolled out to reward people for exercising etc.

@Innocenta anything really. Imagine there was another pandemic and we had to take another vaccine. Which might be slightly more dodgy (10% death rate) compared to the actual virus where the survival rate is 5%. But your body is not your body anymore. You have to take it.

[quote XenoBitch]@clopper
I do not wish to be a part of a society and culture which China promotes of social credits and tracking to implement ‘desirable’ behaviours

There is already talk of a Gov app being rolled out to reward people for exercising etc.[/quote]
Come on now @XenoBitch

There's so much talk on these threads along the lines of "WELL all this money that's gone into managing coronavirus could've been better spent tackling obesity" etc etc etc (which ignores the fact that obesity has been a public health crisis that money has been thrown at for the last decade but anyway...)

What is wrong with the government attempting to roll out a app that helps people lose weight? Alluding to the idea that it's going to become some kind of black mirror type scenario is a bit much. Taking part in any study comes with incentives, and most weight loss programmes have rewards in some form to help motivate people.

[quote XenoBitch]@clopper
I do not wish to be a part of a society and culture which China promotes of social credits and tracking to implement ‘desirable’ behaviours

There is already talk of a Gov app being rolled out to reward people for exercising etc.[/quote]
I cannot begin to imagine why you think this is a bad idea.

It is fine if it is a choice.

@ClarasZoo

I am very pro vaccine but I don't think anyone should be forced to get one. Won't Germans who don't want to be vaccinated but DO want to visit shops etc seek out those with covid and get infected so that they get the same exemption with no vaccination?

IF Omicron is confirmed and widely accepted to have the ability to reinfect people as per the news tonight then I wouldn’t be surprised if having already had Covid no longer has merit on passes etc.

@XenoBitch

It is fine if it is a choice.

@XenoBitch

I'm not sure how you think the government has the motivation or the inclination to force the entire population to join up to an app that forces them to lose weight for a chance to win vouchers

They genuinely cba with anything beyond getting their mates juicy contracts. They have no interest in the kind of dystopian state that keeps getting brought up.

@ollyollyoxenfree what if the app was designed by their mates? And we had to pay £10

It is a thing...

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-pilot-to-help-people-eat-better-and-exercise-more

[quote chocolatesweets]@ollyollyoxenfree what if the app was designed by their mates? And we had to pay £10[/quote]

1. I have no doubt one of their mates is profiting from the app
2. it's a choice - no one has to join
3. it's free! getting people to lose weight is hard enough without making them pay for it

[quote XenoBitch]It is a thing...

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-pilot-to-help-people-eat-better-and-exercise-more[/quote]
yup, no-one is saying it's not. There have been loads of these kinds of schemes over the last couple of years.

but all the alluding to it "not being a choice" and relating it to being "part of a society and culture which China promotes of social credits and tracking to implement ‘desirable’ behaviours" is ridiculous

[quote XenoBitch]It is a thing...

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-pilot-to-help-people-eat-better-and-exercise-more[/quote]
Thanks for the link! Definitely going to try and join if I can, when it comes out. I don't know if they'll accept people with disabilities/medical issues in case it messes up the data, but getting rewards for eating healthily sounds good to me.

Appalling policy. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to segregate people like this needs to have a good long think about where that road leads.