Anti vaxxers question *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[whywouldntyou]

Watching the local news last week our local hospitals ITU is 6/8 full with covid patients. All unvaccinated. Youngest is 20 with no underlying heath conditions. I am continually hearing about covid patients in or just out of ITU saying 'I wish I'd got the jab'.

How do you (as an anti vaxxer) reconcile your attitude but still expecting to be treated in ITU? If they said ' right, no jab, no ITU bed' would you still refuse the vaccine?

What would it (genuinely) take for you to have the jab having seen all the other anti vaxxers encouraging people to have it after realising how ill they were?

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

The point of the vaccine is to reduce the injected person's risk of severe symptoms or death.

You keep on telling yourself half the story, if it makes you feel better!

Oh hoarding I'm really not as silly as you seem to think. Sorry you don't like the truth. If most people have chosen to be jabbed then those people are apparently at lower risk, even lower than the already small risk it already was. That's great. Others don't see the need to reduce an already small risk, especially if they are being pushed and bullied into it.

But nobody is saying the doctors don't know anything. I think most of us have said that covid does present a risk of severe illness or death. But it's to a very small nber of people. And so some people have decided that they are OK with that small risk and don't need a vaccine that may or may not reduce that risk a little more, and also may or may not cause a severe reaction or death (again that's a tiny risk).

As I said, the quote by the ICU doctor says it all "The patient population now consists of a majority of fit, healthy, unvaccinated people". Not 70 yr olds. Not the obese. Not diabetics. Not smokers.

People who were ok with a "small risk" because they thought they were healthy and now are putting pressure on the NHS at best, and dying at worst. Snowflakes.

[quote Bluepinkyellowcakes]@foxgoosefinch resorting to name calling does you no favours. I'm not hard of thinking. I never once said I won't have covid jab because it's different to flu jab, I said same people at risk from both lnesses yet only one gets the jab pushed.
As for coercion are you serious?! OK, my boyfriend says If I don't have sex I'm selfish, he's going to stop me going on holiday, I won't be allowed in the club, I'll even lose my job if I don't do what he wants.... That's coercion and bullying right?! So change it to my government wants me to take a vaccine (or some people on the Internet want me to take the vaccine....) and its the same. Its wrong. So wrong! It's not a choice when everything is taken from you til you agree to do it.[/quote]
Ridiculous. And your main argument seems to be that people die, but you won't. Lovely.

@TomelettewithGreggs

As I said, the quote by the ICU doctor says it all "The patient population now consists of a majority of fit, healthy, unvaccinated people". Not 70 yr olds. Not the obese. Not diabetics. Not smokers.

People who were ok with a "small risk" because they thought they were healthy and now are putting pressure on the NHS at best, and dying at worst. Snowflakes.

Still most people recover just fine. It's a minority that die. Some of those are already ill and would likely die from a different virus or illness if covid didn't exist, some of them will simply be unlucky healthy people.

No @Deadringer I have said there's a small risk to me. That risk includes death. That's fine, we all die. I don't have an argument, I'm not interested in making vaxxed people think they are wrong to get jabbed, they aren't. And nor are unjabbed people wrong to decline it. I'm just defending my reasons for declining.

Guardian article by a doctor who confirms that fit and healthy people are now in the ICU. "The patient population now consists of a majority of fit, healthy, unvaccinated people" . But of course the doctors don;t know anything'; why would they? Bunch of charlatans.

I said that I was only repeating what the doctor and nurses I know have said. That article is just from one doctor too. Where have I said doctors don’t know anything? You seem quite aggressive.

Probably because I have to fork out for private because the NHS is now overstretched. There are plenty of articles by doctors saying the ICU is full of the unvaxxed. Have a look.

Probably because I have to fork out for private because the NHS is now overstretched.

We’ve been doing that for years, it was shit pre covid.

@Mischance

A local vociferous anti-vaxxer in his 40s has just died of covid. He was a widower. He had no underlying health conditions. Two orphaned children - and worse, unnecessarily orphaned.

And where is the evidence that if he had had the jabs he would have survived?

I will say once more, for those who are having trouble with this; the vaccine is not just for the individual - it is for us all.

The vaccine reduces the amount of virus circulating in the community (because vaccinated people are better at killing it) and reduces its ability to produce more variants which are potentially more lethal.

We have seen this with so many illnesses that have been more or less wiped out in vaccinated communities. This is why our children are not dropping dead in droves as they did in the Victorian and pre-Victorian times.

The vaccination is for all of us and all our futures. it is NOT JUST ABOUT YOU.

@Kendodd

What astonishes me about anti vaxxers is that they somehow think they know more about covid and vaccines that the collective experts of the WHO, the CDC, the NHS, PHE, and the EMA. I just cringe for them sometimes.

It is quite embarrassing, isn't it. They think they have some superior knowledge or understanding that somehow contradicts the advice of literal experts with decades of specialist experience.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

But nobody is saying the doctors don't know anything. I think most of us have said that covid does present a risk of severe illness or death. But it's to a very small nber of people. And so some people have decided that they are OK with that small risk and don't need a vaccine that may or may not reduce that risk a little more, and also may or may not cause a severe reaction or death (again that's a tiny risk).

144,000, in this country, not including people that survived but with debilitating health consequences.

foxgoosefinch Thank you for all your posts on this thread. I was very reticent about getting vaccinated because of anxiety and because of the influence of conspiracy theories. People who explain things and address misunderstandings like you have are the reason I'm now vaccinated. (only read half the thread so don't know if it's kicked off). When people with scientific or medical knowledge are sneery, it just entrenches the anti-vaxx propaganda. When medics and scientists are patient and can communicate well with scientifically illiterate people (such as me), it reaches across the divide. It's so important, so thanks.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

The point of the vaccine is to reduce the injected person's risk of severe symptoms or death. It's not to protect anyone else. If your vaccine protects you from severe illness or death then why does it matter if others don't have it? You can still come into contact from covid from someone who is jabbed. But I guess that the OK kind of covid, it's only dirty unvaxxed covid that's the problem. It's nuts. If people choose to be jabbed that's all good for them, they have their reasons and the right to choose. Same goes for choosing not to.

If you get vaccinated you're less likely to transmit it. The biology is so basic even my year 8s can understand it.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Still most people recover just fine. It's a minority that die. Some of those are already ill and would likely die from a different virus or illness if covid didn't exist, some of them will simply be unlucky healthy people.

How pleasant. You realise children can fall in these categories too? These people you are blithely writing off are loved. They aren't just numbers you can just bandy and play around with. They mean something, even if you don't think so.

It's truly amazing. Asking for evidence that an unvaxxed man would not have died when there is an immense amount of evidence on a population level that vaccines work. Imagining that you know more than the entire scientific community. Arguing that the NHS is not struggling because of covid when hundreds of doctors are confirming that it is. A sort of wide eyed disengenousness "I am only repeating what X told me" ignoring the stream of news reports saying otherwise.

Antivaxxers.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Not an anti vaxxer, but I won't have this jab because I don't believe it's necessary.

There is no way anyone can say that their experience of covid would have been worse if they hadn't had the jab.

It affects people differently, even a houseful of people positive at the same time can have different symptoms to each other, from none to really bad flu type... Whether jabbed or unjabbed. There is no way at all of knowing how it will affect you until you get it.

How many on here say they have been really unwell despite being jabbed? And how many others say they sailed through despite not being jabbed, whether through choice or lack of opportunity before jab rollout? It's lucky dip. But with the odds of recovering so high then no, I don't see a need for the jab.

As for hospital treatment, no I don't intend on seeking treatment. Its highly u liked I'd need it. Covid was downgraded as comparable with flu. I don't get a flu jab either, and haven't ever needed hospital for that so don't see why covid would be any different. Humans have immune systems to deal with illnesses, it's their job.

You could have saved some time and energy by just typing the words “my understanding of this is complete bollocks”

I’m not ignoring anything. I know I would be better protected if I had the vaccine. I know that people in my age group have died and more will die.
I still choose not to have it.

I continue to be astonished at how after everything people seem to still believe vaccination's sole purpose is to prevent illness / death in the recipient of the vaccine.

Can one of these people please tell me why we vaccinate primary school children against flu and a whole host of other diseases?

Could it be to reduce the spread of these diseases and protect society at large??

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

And where is the evidence that if he had had the jabs he would have survived?

I'm sorry - this is bonkers. He had Covid. He died of Covid. If he'd had his vaccinations for Covid, that might have ... stopped that happening?

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

The jab is to protect yourself from possibly getting a more severe illness. It's not to protect anyone else. Jabbed still catch pass and die from covid. Look at Israel. Gibraltar.

You're actually a bit thick.

I've worked front line through out , I've seen 'healthy ' 30 somethings die.
Did you have your childhood immunisations ? How can't you understand the more people have the vaccine the more it protects the community?

I'm not anti-vax I've had both jabs but I won't be having the booster.

I don't see any reason that I would take up an ITU bed but I would happily sign a declaration providing I was then exempt from paying National Insurance.

Lol

Could it be to reduce the spread of these diseases and protect society at large??

I think people are pretty selfish actually. They get vaccinated to protect themselves, maybe their family and because they want their life to go back to normal. If people sincerely gave a fuck about others, more people would help others, give more to charity, volunteer, look after other aspects of their health, give blood, not bully/mock others on social media, etc.