Anti vaxxers question *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[whywouldntyou]

Watching the local news last week our local hospitals ITU is 6/8 full with covid patients. All unvaccinated. Youngest is 20 with no underlying heath conditions. I am continually hearing about covid patients in or just out of ITU saying 'I wish I'd got the jab'.

How do you (as an anti vaxxer) reconcile your attitude but still expecting to be treated in ITU? If they said ' right, no jab, no ITU bed' would you still refuse the vaccine?

What would it (genuinely) take for you to have the jab having seen all the other anti vaxxers encouraging people to have it after realising how ill they were?

I’m not anti vaccine but haven’t been vaccinated. Thankfully fully recovered from covid which presented like a cold.
If I needed itu of course I would expect it, because that’s what I pay my NI contributions for. I’m not overweight, a non smoker, a non drinker and don’t make any of the usual lifestyle choices that burden the NHS and cost far more than the very slight one in several thousand chance I would need hospital treatment.
Thankfully in this country, when people get sick we treat them, regardless of their choices.

😂 No! Why on earth should I?! Because you have run out of things to beat me with and I still haven't come round to your way of thinking?
I haven't told anyone what to do, have told anyone their choice is wrong.
But you think I should be silenced and leave the thread. Nah.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Sorry Hoarding, I didn't realise you were the arbiter of posting on mumsnet. My apologies, I will immediately stop posting because you said so.

I didn't address anything other than my last post towards you!

The post you are objecting to is specifically at A N Other and something they specifically said!

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

😂 No! Why on earth should I?! Because you have run out of things to beat me with and I still haven't come round to your way of thinking? I haven't told anyone what to do, have told anyone their choice is wrong. But you think I should be silenced and leave the thread. Nah.

Nah!

Because your posts are utterly bobbins.

Anybody who refuses to take the covid vaccine ( without medical exemptions) with over 5 m dead and entire economies decimated is an anti vaxxer. Let's call a spade a spade now. It is about time.

No, controlling would be me telling them they are not allowed therapy. I'm telling that that the fact they have a normal mum who can think for herself and won't be bullied doesn't mean they need therapy.
Bizzare that you see that as controlling but apparently don't see what the government is doing as controlling!

Obviously my children are free to seek whatever therapy they wish, and I'll support them in that, I'm all for free choice.

My posts aren't bobbins, they are just common sense. It's a pandemic that gives most people cold/flu like symptoms, that almost everyone recovers from. So with that in mind, and the fact my per2risk is tiny, I choose to say no to a vaccine that may or may not make that already tiny risk a bit smaller. Not sure why it upsets you so much. Facts are facts. Most people come through it just fine.

*personal risk

Anybody who refuses to take the covid vaccine ( without medical exemptions) with over 5 m dead and entire economies decimated is an anti vaxxer. Let's call a spade a spade now. It is about time.

Not really. Being anti vaccination is as the name describes- against the vaccination. You will find that the vast majority of people aren’t against the vaccine, but have made an informed decision based on their own health needs and individual circumstances. I would make a different choice if I was 70 or had COPD. If I was anti the vaccine I’d be anti it in all situations.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

No user, I'm not. I didn't realise everyone had to be an immunologist in order to choose whether to vaccinate themselves or not. That might delay the rollout a bit.

👏🏻👏🏻😂

Over 5million dead but how many recovered? Its a small risk.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

For ICU and hospital numbers, I suggest you read and understand what the base rate fallacy is.

Yes over 5 million dead but how many with long covid or other long term affects brought on by covid.

[quote SLH2003]@Bluepinkyellowcakes

For ICU and hospital numbers, I suggest you read and understand what the base rate fallacy is.[/quote]
I suggest you look at the simple fact that for most people covid is a mild to moderate illness that presents mostly like a cold/flu and sometimes even asymptomatic. And the fact is virtually everyone recovers.

but have made an informed decision based on their own health needs and individual circumstances

This misses the critical point that the vaccine is not just for the individual, but for the protection of others around you.

We have seen that the illness can be lethal in so many people - not just the vulnerable (local vociferous anti-vaxxer in his 40s has just died of covid) - and the more we let it float around in the community the more variants will appear, some of which are likely to be more serious and more easily transmissible.

We have no choice but to give this enemy no safe haven - and we do this by vaccinating.

It is not simply a personal choice. Individualism needs to take second place to community in this instance. Until people grasp this, the lockdowns and restrictions will go on .... and on.

I think everyone, including anti-vaxxers, should be treated by the NHS. I jolly well reserve the right to call them anti-vaxxers though. Because they are.

Oh, I too do not smoke, drink, am not overweight and have not gone to a doctor for over a decade. The smugness on this thread when ICU's are filling up with fit 20 and 30-year-olds is beyond belief. But I am beginning to think that if you are not convinced by now, nothing can convince you. As the ICU nurse below says."Some people would rather die than get a covid vaccine".

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-suppress-a-howl-of-disbelief-she-would-rather-die-than-get-a-covid-vaccine-n2l8r2wcj

More than 5 million dead as a conservative estimate. Underpreorting could mean that number is doubled - at this date.

1 in 20 of global deaths currently caused by covid

Covid is the 4th leading cause of deaths globally, possibly 3rd given the inevitable under reporting in some places. But is the leading cause of death in France, Spain, UK and parts of the US

Kills older people disproportionately.

So yeah, you are alright Jack!

The point of the vaccine is to reduce the injected person's risk of severe symptoms or death. It's not to protect anyone else. If your vaccine protects you from severe illness or death then why does it matter if others don't have it? You can still come into contact from covid from someone who is jabbed. But I guess that the OK kind of covid, it's only dirty unvaxxed covid that's the problem. It's nuts. If people choose to be jabbed that's all good for them, they have their reasons and the right to choose. Same goes for choosing not to.

The smugness on this thread when ICU's are filling up with fit 20 and 30-year-olds is beyond belief.

Are they fit and healthy though? I have a few medical people in my family and friends and they all seem to say that yes there are younger people needing hospital treatment, but they seem to be quite overweight or have other health issues. Obviously I’m only repeating what they’ve said and I don’t know if the stats show that.
I still wouldn’t have the vaccine anyway

Definitely under reported. India, for instance. The number could easily be twice that.

You can ‘jolly well’ call everyone who isn’t vaccinated an anti vaxxer if you want, it doesn’t make you right.

The point of the vaccine is to reduce the injected person's risk of severe symptoms or death.

You keep on telling yourself half the story, if it makes you feel better!

I jolly well reserve the right to call them anti-vaxxers though. Because they are.

You can do what you like. It doesn’t make you right. And does it help anything? 😬

@GodIsAVegan

The smugness on this thread when ICU's are filling up with fit 20 and 30-year-olds is beyond belief.

Are they fit and healthy though? I have a few medical people in my family and friends and they all seem to say that yes there are younger people needing hospital treatment, but they seem to be quite overweight or have other health issues. Obviously I’m only repeating what they’ve said and I don’t know if the stats show that.
I still wouldn’t have the vaccine anyway

Guardian article by a doctor who confirms that fit and healthy people are now in the ICU. "The patient population now consists of a majority of fit, healthy, unvaccinated people" . But of course the doctors don;t know anything'; why would they? Bunch of charlatans. www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin