Vaccine for 5+

[NotTheBaby]

It’s on sky news now. Leaked document stating 5 year olds and above to be vaccinated from spring. I’m so hesitant to get my children done, when I couldn’t wait for mine. Why is this so much harder than it should be? Or am I just overthinking it?

It was a study in about June 2021. Obviously not the one above.

The autopsies I mentioned were on people not on rats, of course.

@Flyonawalk

The autopsies I mentioned were on people not on rats, of course.

If you can't provide links then we don't believe the autopsies took place at all

@Flyonawalk

It was a study in about June 2021. Obviously not the one above.

I have not seen any study that has carried out autopsies on people in Japan and found spike protein accumulated in organs? Beyond anything else I don't see how this study would have been designed.

I don't believe it happened and inclined to think your posts are just more anti-vaccine scaremongering. Unless you can provide a link?

Nothing coming up on pubmed. Which suggests this was either a) not published in a peer-reviewed journal (ie probably a load of nonsense), or b) you’ve just completely made it up.

Will await the link with bated breath.

I have not found the study - I think it was discussed on Lockdown Sceptics, now Daily Sceptic, in the second quarter of 2021.

Assuming I find a link, I doubt it will carry much weight on this board! There is a determination to believe that these new vaccines, which carry no long-term data, are effective and safe. I would love to believe that this is true and I hope to find my fears groundless.

I continue to be amazed that governments and parents will take chances with the health of young children. Time will tell and history will judge.

If it did happen don't you think it would be widely reported?

You are spouting nonsense

@dementedpixie No, I don’t think issues with the vaccine would be widely reported.

The U.K. yellow card scheme is not widely known. As of 19 November it lists almost 1,784 vaccine-related deaths and 1,271,000 injuries. This is not receiving attention in the mainstream media.

Only last week, Trevor Francis was cut off in mid-word on TalkSport. He was discussing the latest sportsman to collapse on the pitch, and said ‘we’d all like to know if he’d had the covid va…’ His microphone was cut and audio suspended.

This was disseminated on Twitter accounts which have since been suspended. Mainstream media are not reporting the numbers of cardiac and respiratory problems among professional sportspeople.

Possibly all this is coincidental. But it is not being widely reported or discussed.

Yeah I think I will vaccinate my 7yo. The vaccine programme has been a huge success, I think we are incredibly lucky to live in the developed world and have this choice.

@Flyonawalk

I have not found the study - I think it was discussed on Lockdown Sceptics, now Daily Sceptic, in the second quarter of 2021.

Assuming I find a link, I doubt it will carry much weight on this board! There is a determination to believe that these new vaccines, which carry no long-term data, are effective and safe. I would love to believe that this is true and I hope to find my fears groundless.

I continue to be amazed that governments and parents will take chances with the health of young children. Time will tell and history will judge.

@Flyonawalk

So absolutely no evidence to back up a pretty wild claim that you think spike protein has been found in "the organs of autopsied Japanese patients". Nor that spike protein is produced contintually after vaccination (which is biologically impossible, based on decades on mol bio research).

Unsurpising

Assuming I find a link, I doubt it will carry much weight on this board!
If you found a manuscript or pre-print demonstrating a study that you describe actually existed then if course it would be useful and would "carry weight" as you put it.

But you can't because it hasn't happened - you've believed misinformation spread on social media which was a misinterpretation of the Pfizer NLP study in rats.

@saltedcaramel1 Your last sentence - not so. Apart from Mumsnet I don’t have any social media.

It is in no one’s interest to spread disinformation. This is a thread about the wisdom of vaccinating five year old children with an unlicensed vaccine. Surely all posters want the same thing - safe and effective treatment of very young children.

I am amazed by the naive assumption that all will be well if we don’t follow the normal protocols and time-lapse of standard medical trials.

@NotTheBaby Hi OP. You ask ‘why is this is much harder than it should be?’ Answer - it should be hard to make a decision for your five year old, when long-term information is unavailable. There is enormous pressure to vaccinate nearly everyone and the public are not being encouraged to question. I hope you make a decision that you are happy with

@Flyonawalk

How can you say that the Yellow Card system is not widely known? It has been on the leaflet given to me after my two vaccines and then the booster.

I had never heard of it before then.

@ConcernedAuntie Because the government’s own figures are that between one and ten per cent of adverse reactions are reported by the yellow card scheme, and the others are not.

Good that you were informed about it. It hasn’t been noticed by many people I know.

Great news Will be getting my 7, 8 and 10 year old's vaccinated.

[quote Flyonawalk]@saltedcaramel1 Your last sentence - not so. Apart from Mumsnet I don’t have any social media.

It is in no one’s interest to spread disinformation. This is a thread about the wisdom of vaccinating five year old children with an unlicensed vaccine. Surely all posters want the same thing - safe and effective treatment of very young children.

I am amazed by the naive assumption that all will be well if we don’t follow the normal protocols and time-lapse of standard medical trials.[/quote]
@Flyonawalk

it is in no one’s interest to spread disinformation

Then stop repeating a claim ("spike proteins found in the organs of autopsied japanese patients!") when multiple posters have explained that this is extremely unlikely to be true, when you're unable to link any article/manuscript/pre-print demonstrated this actually happened.

Surely all posters want the same thing - safe and effective treatment of very young children.
Yes - not sure how continually posting misinformation is in line with this aim.

[quote Flyonawalk]@ConcernedAuntie Because the government’s own figures are that between one and ten per cent of adverse reactions are reported by the yellow card scheme, and the others are not.

Good that you were informed about it. It hasn’t been noticed by many people I know.[/quote]
Again, do you have a link anything showing it to be the case?

A decade ago, the US government estimated that only 10% of adverse effects were reported to VAERS. I'd be extremely suprised if, 10 years later, during an active pandemic, when side effects are continually in the meda, this number was somehow estimated to be lower.

Good that you were informed about it. It hasn’t been noticed by many people I know.
I find that unbelievable, given that it's included in the information leaflet given out after both appointments. It includes details of how to report to a phone number or website.

I'll vaccinate my five year old. I'd do my three year old if it was available too.

It makes me laugh that people say 'no way am I giving my five year old this vaccine!' Then in the next breath 'unless it affects me travelling....'

So. You're anti giving it because you're not comfortable giving it to a younger child, it's not tested yet; there's no risk to them, blah blah. Unless it affects you going on your holidays, then ah well they'll have to take the risk that I'm so against, I'm not missing my week in Tenerife! Wow.

@Wellarentyouacleverdick That is so true. People who clearly have reservations about safety and who don’t feel their five year olds ‘need’ the vaccine, yet would bow to pressure if their holidays were compromised!

@Flyonawalk I mean having reservations about safety, feeling nervous, wanting to wait and do more research- fine. I don't agree, but I understand it totally.

But to be so against it and then change their minds on the basis it means they can't go on holiday is absolutely laughable.

Someone in the Tory party is definitely making a lot of the covid vaccine.

The Tories don’t run the entire world. I wouldn’t be that surprised if Covid vaccine hesitancy in the 5-12 age group ends up with a Green Pass Super + being required for in school education (as opposed to online provision) over here.

Being fast to shut borders and good at vaccine roll out seems to lessen how much a population is pissed off with their leaders’ abilities to cope with the pandemic. The population also gets pissed off with leaders if restrictions go on too long, so being able to reduce restrictions based on vaccine uptake is appealing for the rosettes at the sharp end.

It has also proved useful over here for people who place their politics above all else to try and stir the population towards infighting, labelling everybody as fully on the far end of the spectrum i.e. pro/anti vax, pro/anti lockdown, pro/anti mask, whereas the bulk of us are somewhere in the middle of feeling like we don’t know enough about any of this stuff to really judge what is more helpful, useful or pandemic-squishing.

Those in power and those in opposition quite likely feel they can’t afford to ignore the potential risks and benefits of winning/losing hearts and minds so might not be entirely focused on data driven science (social & medical) for their solutions.

The International League Tables of Performance in terms of cases, hospitalisations, deaths and vaccinations given is probably also contributing to something of a domino effect, one nation pulls the trigger and the rest follow for fear of looking like a Maverick or too slow off the mark.

It’s a much bigger maze on a global scale than a single party in power in one nation can hope to navigate without keeping one eye on what all the other countries are doing and how their direction is going over with the public in comparison.

@Wellarentyouacleverdick I hear you. A medical procedure (especially for a child!) should be based on clinical need and good safety data. Not the wish to go on holiday!

The U.K. Medical Freedom Alliance published an open letter on 7 June 2021, asking the MHRA to reconsider vaccinating 12-15 year olds. They open with ‘It is with the gravest of concern and utter incredulity that we assimilate the decision by the MHRA to grant regulatory approval for emergency use of the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine in 12-15 year old children.’

I do not know how to link this letter but it is available online.

[quote Flyonawalk]@Wellarentyouacleverdick I hear you. A medical procedure (especially for a child!) should be based on clinical need and good safety data. Not the wish to go on holiday!

The U.K. Medical Freedom Alliance published an open letter on 7 June 2021, asking the MHRA to reconsider vaccinating 12-15 year olds. They open with ‘It is with the gravest of concern and utter incredulity that we assimilate the decision by the MHRA to grant regulatory approval for emergency use of the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine in 12-15 year old children.’

I do not know how to link this letter but it is available online.[/quote]
The MFA has been a significant source of misinformation on coronavirus and vaccination.

Here is a link to the specific letter you mention regarding vaccination of 12-15 year olds: www.ukmedfreedom.org/open-letters/open-letter-to-headteachers-and-teachers-re-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-in-schools

Many claims in this doc that aren't true, are misleading, or are not backed up by evidence. A quick review of the references demonstrates that many of them are not actually relevant to the claims being made. They are very obviously biased.

Some examples:
"The risk of death or serious disease from Covid-19 to children is close to zero"
"Children play an insignificant role in transmission"
"They have not been licensed and remain experimental until Phase 3 trials have been completed in 2023."
"As of 9 June, 949,276 adverse reactions and 1332 vaccine-related deaths had been reported to the MHRA in the UK"
-"In children, acquiring natural immunity will serve a better purpose"
-"Medium- and long-term effects of Covid-19 vaccines, including effects on fertility, carcinogenesis, autoimmune diseases, are completely unknown, which is most relevant for children"

etc etc

The issues with these statements has been discussed on previous pages of this thread.

@saltedcaramel1 Thank you for the link.

I don’t find them a source of misinformation. The quotations which you list as examples of misleading claims are all true. For example, medium and long term effects of these vaccines are indeed unknown.

[quote Flyonawalk]@saltedcaramel1 Thank you for the link.

I don’t find them a source of misinformation. The quotations which you list as examples of misleading claims are all true. For example, medium and long term effects of these vaccines are indeed unknown.[/quote]
For example, medium and long term effects of these vaccines are indeed unknown.

@Flyonawalk

Despite all your claims (which you haven't been able to back up), there is no plausible mechanism by which side effects would suddenly start appearing in the medium or long term. This is not how vaccines work. If you are going to have an adverse effect, it will become apparent within a very short time frame.

It is also incredibly disengenous because it ignores the very real risk of long term effects of coronavirus, which are equally not known. And in this case (based on existing knowledge of viral infections), there is a plausible mechanism by which infection could cause this.

Whether it is justified in offering vaccination to 5-11 year olds remains to be seen, but all this misinformaton helps no-one.