Vaccine for 5+

[NotTheBaby]

It’s on sky news now. Leaked document stating 5 year olds and above to be vaccinated from spring. I’m so hesitant to get my children done, when I couldn’t wait for mine. Why is this so much harder than it should be? Or am I just overthinking it?

You didn’t but don’t worry I’ve done it. The first study shows 0 difference in transmission for index cases vaccinated or unvaccinated.

In the second the raw data shows the same but don’t worry they did some statistical adjustment to make it look like vaccination of the index case reduces transmission. Look at the actual data and you will see it didn’t.

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1.full-text

Meanwhile in the real world. If vaccination is so effective at reducing transmission why are vaccinated still required to isolate and test? And if so effective why are case rates so high in highly vaccinated nations. If it’s so effective we should see it in the real world data, no?

@Prettizel

"My 8yo is desperate to get his, so he can protect his brother and Nan. I've always said that the final decision would be his. He understands that I've had my 3 jabs to protect the same people and he wants his. Mind he has seen his brother very poorly from a bog standard cold"

"I actually find it awfully sad that 8 year olds are carrying that weight of responsibility on their shoulders- being asked to make decisions that they can't possibly understand so choose based on guilt alone. My high school dd was allowed to make her own choice, I'll be taking responsibility for deciding for my 8 year old"

I dunno, I have always given my young children the final say on serious decisions re their health, doesn't everyone?

No funnily enough they don’t. My 3 year old didn’t want to go in for her MMR after seeing her twin coming out crying. I still went ahead and she had it whilst I held her. It’s called parenting and knowing that you as a parent actually have the wider world knowledge and view of what is best than a young child. Children who are left to make important decisions and get to set the rules grow up to be insecure and anxious adults.

@Hotcoffee10

You didn’t but don’t worry I’ve done it. The first study shows 0 difference in transmission for index cases vaccinated or unvaccinated.

In the second the raw data shows the same but don’t worry they did some statistical adjustment to make it look like vaccination of the index case reduces transmission. Look at the actual data and you will see it didn’t.

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1.full-text

Meanwhile in the real world. If vaccination is so effective at reducing transmission why are vaccinated still required to isolate and test? And if so effective why are case rates so high in highly vaccinated nations. If it’s so effective we should see it in the real world data, no?

On your last child vaccine thread.

Those are not population-based studies - they are biased by the fact they rely on those who had had a positive test result.

Guess who is more likely to go out and get tested? Someone who has symptoms of coronavirus, and therefore on average will have a higher viral load than someone without.

In studies which rely on random sampling of the general population, and therefore do not have this bias, both a lower viral load and reduced duration of infectioness have been demonstrated - REACT-2 is a good example.

If vaccination is so effective at reducing transmission why are vaccinated still required to isolate and test? And if so effective why are case rates so high in highly vaccinated nations.
Because effectiveness in not 100%. This does not negate the fact that on a population level, there is reduction in onward transmission.

..raw data shows the same but don’t worry they did some statistical adjustment to make it look like vaccination of the index case reduces transmission

Incidentally, what specifically do you disagree with in the methods here?

I'm really uncomfortable about the idea of vaccinating my 6yo against something that isn't really for her benefit.

I'm not anti vax - I'm double vaxed, she has all her jabs including the flu nasal spray but this really sits unwell with me.

Firstly, after both my vaccines, my period went utterly haywire. They tried to gaslight thousands of women who also said the same, by saying we all imagined it and it was nothing to do with the jab. I'm extremely concerned about the implication of jabbing pre-pubescent girls when I'm unaware of whether the issue of the vaccine impacting periods etc has been thoroughly researched. I'm not saying that there is a link (so I'm not spreading disinformation), but I'm also not convinced their isn't a link either. I'd like to see the research about it.

Secondly, I distrust this government enormously. I genuinely don't believe it's about protecting my child. If you are vaccinated my view is that you need to feel you are benefiting from a protection. Children are far less likely to be affected by Covid. She has no other health implications, so statistically speaking, if she caught Covid it would likely be asymptomatic or just a mild cold. Therefore, what is the benefit to her?

Thirdly, and this is my biggest issue and it also relates to the booster jab. I'm under 40, so at the moment, I'm unsure if I'm eligible. But equally, I don't think I want to be eligible. I don't feel that I've had the jab for my benefit. I feel that I've been coerced into having it. Again, statistically, as someone with no health issues, a good weight, I exercise 3-4 times a week and generally fit and well, I'm extremely unlikely to be ill with covid. Therefore, I feel like the government has forced me to be vaccinated - not least because I'm self employed (part of the excluded group) and I can't afford to isolate repeatedly or have my work shut down. Now, that's fine when I understand that and I made an informed decision. But I draw the line at coercing children into being injected with a relatively new vaccine.

My 6 year old ask me a few days ago when she was getting her jag.
Everyone she knows (except her school friends) has had at least 2, some 3 and she’s feeling left out!
I’m slightly wary.

I’m wary of vaccinating my child as I’ve had significant side effects which other family members have also had so could be a genetic link to how our immune systems react.
I’m also wary because anytime anyone mentions a possible side effect they’ve suffered it’s all “nothing to see hear, move along” rather than anyone actually investigating if they might be because of the vaccine. I’m not anti the vaccine at all but I do think there should be a little more sympathy / understanding why people are cautious. Inevitably it seems whilst not compulsory our children will have a very restricted life if not vaccinated.

@thebellagio well said. I couldn't agree more. My 5yo will not be having it at this point.

Well @TotoShetland being a PBP is unsuprising

@BingBongToTheMoon

My 6 year old ask me a few days ago when she was getting her jag. Everyone she knows (except her school friends) has had at least 2, some 3 and she’s feeling left out! I’m slightly wary.

How have 6yo have 3 COVID jabs? Where ??

So coffee how do you explain such low cases in the uk vaccinated older ags groups they arent all sat home... So clearly it is preventing them catching it. As they havent largely got immunity from actual infection either.....
Look at a chart of the cases they are now in the under 18 and their 40+ AZ vaxxed parents.

I agree with concern re periods but
1 covid causes period issues.
2 if you dont get vaccinated you will get covid
3 this might be say anaemia /low iron as you need iron for antibodies
4 viruses do cause infertility like mumps it may not be clear the impact live covid has although women are getting pregnant. Others seem to have gone into menopause symptoms early 40s suddenly after actual covid. I would prioritise a childs brain so protectng from LC.

@HSHorror cases isn't a massive concern if they are mild which the majority are (various NHS/gov sites say this) the majority of people whether vaccinated or not who end up needing to be treated in ICU are overweight/obese this is the single thing everyone can take responsibility for and reduce their own risk. Over 80% in ICU over overweight/obese

Source: www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c834684d-ea43-ec11-9138-00505601089b

@EasterIssland you have completely misread my post.

[quote BingBongToTheMoon]@EasterIssland you have completely misread my post.[/quote]
Apologies if that was the case

I was suprised how few secondary children in my village are planning to be vaccinated.
Over drinks with Mums I found that out of 9 secondary age children (spread across 5 families) 1 had already been vaccinated, 1 was going to be at school.
The other 7 were not giving consent although 1 may do when their 12 weeks since covid infection is up.
The other 6 (including my children), 5 of which are boys, are not being vaccinated for now.
These are from middle class, educated families (Dr, nurse, 2 teachers).
Tbh I was expecting to be the only one declining vaccination.
I think those who are pro vaccination of children are much more vocal in real life.

The world i didnt say cases in children were (though i dont agree with that and do think its an issue due to brain effects and long covid) but coffee is saying vaccines for stop you catching it but the cases per age group clearly say they do. Otherwise cases wouldnt be highest in children

Takeup could actually be higher in primary as parents have to stay home 10d per child potentially then themselves unpaid.

Trump - did you also ask how many had already had covid?

@HSHorror
Of the 7 children that weren't being vaccinated for now, 3 had, had covid.
Of those families it was a fairly even split of children declining, or their parents not wanting them to have the vaccine.
I would encourage my children to be vaccinated as adults.

I certainly will not be letting them experiment on my children either op. Go with your gut! 😉

@Scarcity20

I certainly will not be letting them experiment on my children either op. Go with your gut! 😉

It's an approved vaccine, therefore not experimental.

No one is forcing you to.

Maybe it you'll have the oppourtunity to have your 5-11 year old vaccinated, maybe the JCVI will decide it's not justified.

Go with your gut!

@Scarcity20

I'll personally be going with the real world data to see a) the best evidence for how risky coronavirus is for this age group and b) what epidemioloigcal analysis says about the pros versus cons for this age group..

I really don't want to get this for my youngest, in particular. I don't think there is any benefit for her, especially since she's had covid, and I would like to see much more information on the vaccine's long term effects.

My kids have always had their other vaccinations up to date, I even keep track of when I am due for things like a tetanus shot.

I suspect they may make it really difficult for kids here in Canada who don't get it, though.

Also have a read up on Maddie de garay, a 12 Yr old girl who took part in the pfizer trials. Obviously there are going to be some bad reactions and some children permenantly disabled or killed in any vaccine rollout. But the fact they won't even admit it was caused by the vaccine is worrying to me!

@Scarcity20

Also have a read up on Maddie de garay, a 12 Yr old girl who took part in the pfizer trials. Obviously there are going to be some bad reactions and some children permenantly disabled or killed in any vaccine rollout. But the fact they won't even admit it was caused by the vaccine is worrying to me!

Again, all nonsense. Have reported your last post as it had too much to argue with.

Maddie de Garay is still very much alive, and her condition is thought to be functional neurological disorder. This is something which is pyschiatric (so not due to the specific components of the vaccine, although potentially taking part in a trial may have triggered it)

The media widely reports on deaths caused by deaths. Here's the very sad case of a boy who died from myocarditis after getting Pfizer:
eu.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/

His family were extremely distressed his case was picked up by Fox news and used by anti-vaxxers - they said they would still go ahead with the decision but were campaigning for better awareness of what to look out for regarding myo/percarditis.