Vaccinations to made a legal requirement in Austria from Feb 2022

[littlelordfuckleroy]

Days after Austria imposed a lockdown on the unvaccinated, it has announced a full national Covid-19 lockdown starting on Monday.

Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said it would last at least 10 days and there would be a legal requirement to get vaccinated from 1 February 2022.

Jesus. I'm shocked by that. I'm not an antivaxxer but I still very concerned that a country could make any vaccine a legal requirement! I feel it's a step too far.

@ichundich I’m as entitled to my opinion as you are. I don’t find the OP offensive / anti-Semitic. She’s been very measured and calm imo. I’m sorry you find some of the posts on this thread offensive - might be better for your blood pressure if you step away

From a scientific pov it is hard to justify. If the a vaccine was highly effective at preventing transmission that would be one thing; but it’s not proving to be.

Unsurprisingly as vaccines for respiratory illness are tricky due to the nature of the lungs. The flu vaccine is 40-60% effective; TB and pneumonia vaccines are better at preventing the infection reaching the bloodstream than stopping the initial lung infection.

Data recently covered in the Lancet and BMJ indicate the Covid vaccine is more effective at keeping people out of ICU than preventing transmission. And that transmission within households is roughly the same unvaccinated/double vaccinated.

In the light of that - locking unvaccinated people inside isn’t likely to have a substantive impact on transmission rates, and if they’re no more likely to transmit than the unvaccinated, it’s hard to justify from a human rights perspective.

Sorry to make 3 posts about this, I should have all kept it in one comment. But hearing this has really angered me.

Watching DD suffer her first period post-vaccine was absolutely fucking horrendous. Anyone would have thought she was in active labour. She could barely cope with the bleeding herself as there was so much. We knew it was coming as we’d heard many stories about endometriosis and the vaccine and which is why she avoided the vaccine for so long, but eventually had it. As did I, and as I said, had a heavy period afterwards after not bleeding for years. DD has had 3 periods since, all still absolutely awful. They were bad enough before the vaccine but they are unbearable now. Endometriosis is an inflammatory disease and I think the immune response from the vaccine must be worsening it.

She refuses to have her second and I don’t blame her. She’s not a selfish antivaxxer idiot. She’s had Covid before and it wasn’t even as bad as the common cold.

Jesus. I'm shocked by that. I'm not an antivaxxer but I still very concerned that a country could make any vaccine a legal requirement! I feel it's a step too far.

It's been on the cards. Boiling frog syndrome.

@MiddayMass

I hate everything about this, choosing to not have the vaccine doesn’t necessarily make you an antivaxxer moron.

Me and DD both have endometriosis with quite bad pain (it still effects me even post-menopause) and were both reluctant to have it in case it worsened the pain, as we’d heard many stories of problem periods in other women after the vaccine.

We both ended up having it in the end and our fears manifested for the both of us. DD had an extremely heavy bleed and nearly had to go to A&E. I’m 49, post-menopausal and had a period afterwards, DD still isn’t back to normal and bleeds heavier with more pain.

I cannot believe Austria

It’s interesting you mention this. I have suspected endometriosis and still waiting for investigations, I do already suffer from awful periods but they have been horrendously heavy ever since getting my first vaccine. I have also been getting awful aura migraines too.

100% of those 9 people's families have had their lives devastated for ever, though. Statistically, the chances of those 9 people having died of COVID are lower than minuscule. Personally speaking, I'd be even more distraught to have lost somebody because of a non-necessary medical intervention than to a potentially deadly virus doing what deadly viruses do.

Yes, if you look at the figures, it might make more sense to have the vaccine - but it should not be the government's call to make. Adults take risks all the time - sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't; but that's what personal capacity and choice is all about.

I’m shocked that this has happened. My conspiracy theory friend isn’t. She was going on about mandatory vaccines and passports before there was even a vaccine. I told her she was being ridiculous. How did they know??

I'm not surprised at all. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The problem with 'conspiracy theory' is that everything is lumped in together: flat earth and royal reptilians might be ludicrous, but that gets extended to anybody asking questions, based on their observations. Do you have any tiny little doubts about David Kelly, Robin Cook or Jeffrey Epstein's deaths? Wonder if, just maybe, we may not have been told the full/accurate story? Well, don't, shut up: you're a crazy if you believe the government would ever lie to you or try to hide anything from you.

Even the word 'conspiracy' is an odd one: plenty of apparently 'ordinary' (i.e. relatively unknown) people are arrested and convicted each year on a charge of 'conspiracy to XXX', whilst at the same time, we're told that the concept of wondering if rich, powerful, famous people might have possibly been doing the same is sheer, unequivocal lunacy.

Just remember who was born there.....HITLER

It really grieves me, as I lived in Austria for a while and met so many lovely, wonderful people. The country seemed a million miles away from its infamous dark history, but it would appear that certain elements now see some of their most famous son's principles as an example to follow, rather than a stark warning to never return to.

Having made this law, of which Hitler would undoubtedly have been very proud, if they don't now remove and ceremoniously smash the large stone in Braunau am Inn bearing the (apparently empty) inscription 'For freedom, peace and democracy: never again fascism', I will have the same respect for them as I do for Joe Biden for having multiple vehicles flown to another continent to help him campaign against human contributions to climate change.

Better to liken it to compulsory conscription. Imagine less than 100 years ago you wound have been told your 18 year old son has to go to war and face a not negligible chance of dying, or risk imprisonment.

That wasn't okay either. Terrified teenage boys were shot by their own COs for disobeying orders to go over the top as they were frozen in fear. I'd like to think we've moved on a bit.

I'm violently opposed to conscription. I've had first hand family experience of it.

Hello, we seem to be back after the site being down?

Hopefully offensive posts have been removed?

www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/2021/11/09/no-vaccine-and-masking-mandates-are-nothing-like-nazi-germany

They say it better than I can. It's so profoundly offensive a comparison. Requiring public health measures for an entire population is not the same as dehumanization, persecution, and genocide of a religious minority or race.

And the symbols of that persecution, that unspeakable horror, don't get to be appropriated by you to make a pretty basic political point. You don't get to use that trauma. It's not your pain, your suffering, your extermination to use. How’s that for subjective?

I'm not making a point about Austria's law. I'm making a point because you repeatedly refuse to see why what you said was appalling.

@Snowisfallinghere

If people weren't such idiots declining the perfectly safe vaccine in the first place, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Also bodily autonomy goes out the window if you're posing a threat to yourself and/or others. Collectively, large numbers of people refusing to get vaxxed does pose a massive threat to public health.

Firstly, nobody knows the long term effects, these vaccines have only been around for less than a year.

Secondly, they are not "perfectly safe" as there are now lots of reports of blood clots, myocarditis and who knows what will become apparent in the future.

Thirdly, bodily autonomy is absolutely the most important element of personal freedom and human rights and if you are prepared to deny that to people, claiming it is for the "greater good" you are becoming a fascist.

@Nancydrawn

www.wgbh.org/news/commentary/2021/11/09/no-vaccine-and-masking-mandates-are-nothing-like-nazi-germany

They say it better than I can. It's so profoundly offensive a comparison. Requiring public health measures for an entire population is not the same as dehumanization, persecution, and genocide of a religious minority or race.

And the symbols of that persecution, that unspeakable horror, don't get to be appropriated by you to make a pretty basic political point. You don't get to use that trauma. It's not your pain, your suffering, your extermination to use. How’s that for subjective?

I'm not making a point about Austria's law. I'm making a point because you repeatedly refuse to see why what you said was appalling.

When you say 'you' are you talking to me? Because Ive apologised maybe two or three times.

Thirdly, bodily autonomy is absolutely the most important element of personal freedom and human rights and if you are prepared to deny that to people, claiming it is for the "greater good" you are becoming a fascist

I get this and on first glance I totally agree. I guess I just also wonder whether you could consider that you impinge on someone's bodily autonomy when you arguably expose them to a greater risk of contracting a potentially deadly disease? Is denial of bodily autonomy by omission not quite close to denial by commission? That's why I see this as uncomfortable complicated.

I gather they are sending out appointments to the unvaccinated as a first step.
I guess they might get a few that way who haven't bothered.

It's absolutely bloody outrageous. Shameful. There has to be effective push back against this.

@middaymass

I'm sorry about your daughter.

I came off the pill in July and had my booster jab shortly after. To say the least my period was 2 weeks late (not unexpected) but the bleeding was horrific, massive clots and flooding through my Tampons and pads.
Could be a coincidence but I've never had a period like it. I was faint and felt anaemic, will have to see what my next one is like.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Thirdly, bodily autonomy is absolutely the most important element of personal freedom and human rights and if you are prepared to deny that to people, claiming it is for the "greater good" you are becoming a fascist

I get this and on first glance I totally agree. I guess I just also wonder whether you could consider that you impinge on someone's bodily autonomy when you arguably expose them to a greater risk of contracting a potentially deadly disease? Is denial of bodily autonomy by omission not quite close to denial by commission? That's why I see this as uncomfortable complicated.

Good point.

Still, legally required vaccines is such a tangible infringement on bodily autonomy. Certainly makes me feel very uncomfortable

@Glinsk

I gather they are sending out appointments to the unvaccinated as a first step. I guess they might get a few that way who haven't bothered.

Hopefully a lot of people get on with having it done out of 'choice' so they don't actually pass the law.

(Is it law yet?)

Fucking crazy. And absolutely crossing a dangerous line

@littlelordfuckleroy Why are you repeating prison? where is the source of this info?
So far, only thing I saw was mention of possible fines and nothing seems to be decided yet.

Another fascist here then, though as I am generally very left wing I don't accept that. Yes, vaccination should be compulsory, along with a very strict set of restrictions and criminal penalties for those who will not cooperate without medical justification.

Arguably better than retrospectively imposing it as a mandatory rquirement for mid career care-workers and HCPs while MPs don't set an example, don't vaccinate and make statements about not needing to wear masks nor socially distance because they all know each other (Can't even be bothered to Google a reminder what the Leader of the House? said). We're all in it together, except the PM when visiting hospitals and just about everyone not an HCP.

[quote MummyPop00]Forced vaccination is a violation of:

1. Nuremberg Code
2. UNESCO Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights (art.6).
3. UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (art. 7).
4. UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights (art. 3)

The world has weak leaders, cowtowing to media driven hyperbole & fear mongering. They fear vote loss primarily instead of accepting things as they realistically are.

This is a disease with an IFR of

[quote rainrainraincamedowndowndown]@littlelordfuckleroy Why are you repeating prison? where is the source of this info?
So far, only thing I saw was mention of possible fines and nothing seems to be decided yet.[/quote]
Here

@ExConstance

Another fascist here then, though as I am generally very left wing I don't accept that. Yes, vaccination should be compulsory, along with a very strict set of restrictions and criminal penalties for those who will not cooperate without medical justification.

Which vaccinations?

The last think you said was that you apologized for causing "some offence" and that "offence is entirely subjective," so I suppose I thought your apologize was begrudging, halfhearted, and continued to reflect a lack of understanding of why people found your comparisons so profoundly unacceptable.

What I'm saying here has nothing to do with the actual policy you're debating. It has to do with your ease and comfort in using the extermination of a minority group to make that political point. (I'm assuming you mean Star of David, btw, not Star of Alexander. Let's make a rule that you can't appropriate the Holocaust if you don't know basic terminology.)