Vaccinations to made a legal requirement in Austria from Feb 2022

[littlelordfuckleroy]

Days after Austria imposed a lockdown on the unvaccinated, it has announced a full national Covid-19 lockdown starting on Monday.

Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said it would last at least 10 days and there would be a legal requirement to get vaccinated from 1 February 2022.

Jesus. I'm shocked by that. I'm not an antivaxxer but I still very concerned that a country could make any vaccine a legal requirement! I feel it's a step too far.

ollyolly

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1

Similar vital loads?

@userperuser

ollyolly

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1

Similar vital loads?

So that study, and others, are based on a positive test result. You're going to be biasing your analyses towards to the null by doing this, as you're artifically changing who is selected into your sample.

There will be a large number of people walking around unware they have coronavirus. These people will on average have a lower viral load. Numbers are not equal between vaccinated and unvaccinated - vaccianted cohorts tend to have higher rates of asymtomatic or low level symptoms that are missed.

When you randomly sample the general population, like in REACT-2, you are getting a more reliable estimate of what is actually happening, minimising this bias, and these studies have demonstrated lower viral load and reduced duration of being infectious.

ollyollyoxenfree

But we still shouldn’t dismiss these findings? And it’s potentially not correct to presume that vaccinated individuals will have a lower viral load? It certainly shouldn’t be stated as if it’s fact that they do.

@ktel1

LobsterNapkin

I'm also in Canada, it's very disturbing what's happening here

I'm almost more disturbed by the seeming mass compliance than the rules themselves.

There is so little dissent here.

Of course the media are largely responsible for this. I can't find anything that doesn't fit the government narrative.

On that note I've recently stopped using google for searches.
I'm using duckduckgo and it's very interesting how much more relevant and varied the results are on the situation,

The fact that citizens can't leave the country unless they are vaccinated and can't travel domestically by train or air is outrageous.

I see that Australia has a similar policy in place for all international travel so perhaps Canada is emulating them.

When I read about what's happening in Austria it doesn't sound that dissimilar to the situation in Canada and I can totally see them instituting fines here in the future.

Trudeau is trying to pass an internet censorship bill which would further silence any dissent from citizens.

Through all of this I have also learned that The Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms has no value whatsoever.

Yes, I also find the mass compliance upsetting.

I suppose it's the dark flip side of our tendency to not rock the boat and give the benefit of the doubt to those in charge. The legislature in my province didn't sit for something like a year, and there was no real questioning of it by the media, the LG did not question the government about his. Opposition parties didn't question much and couldn't do so in any formal way. The governing party, and really the premier, was able to do pretty much whatever he wanted without any questioning.

I am really worried about the lack of media outlets that offer a different perspective. Having attended university with many CBC journalists I an unfortunately not surprised that they offer no questioning of the official narrative but it is not good.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

But we still shouldn’t dismiss these findings? And it’s potentially not correct to presume that vaccinated individuals will have a lower viral load? It certainly shouldn’t be stated as if it’s fact that they do.

No not dismiss, but appreciate that when using this study design it's unsurspring no difference was observed between groups (particularly when studies using random sampling did observe significant differences)

And it’s potentially not correct to presume that vaccinated individuals will have a lower viral load
For a specific individual, totally agree. But on a group/population-level, evidence suggests there is.

ollyollyoxenfree

But on a group/population-level, evidence suggests there is

Do you have any links to studies on this? I can only find articles to the contrary.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

But on a group/population-level, evidence suggests there is

Do you have any links to studies on this? I can only find articles to the contrary.

REACT-2 for example, as mentioned in my first post

www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/real-time-assessment-of-community-transmission-findings/

ollyollyoxenfree

It won’t load some of those studies for me.

I have just read that Kenya are introducing vaccine passports for entry into public places and onto public transport in December. I was quite surprised by this and am having a hard time understanding quite why there is such a push for covid vaccines when we haven’t seen any such mandatory push for other life saving vaccines in Kenya. I just had a quick look at some Kenyan figures;

Each year there are 10.5 million cases of Malaria and 10,500 deaths. To date (so around 18 months) there have been 255k cases of covid and around 5,300 deaths.

Malaria is clearly a much larger risk and problem and has been for some years but I don’t recall ever reading that the Kenyan government had decided not to let citizens into daily society if they were not vaccinated against Malaria. The sole obsession and focus on this one illness and vaccine is bizarre.

@Lostinacloud

I have just read that Kenya are introducing vaccine passports for entry into public places and onto public transport in December. I was quite surprised by this and am having a hard time understanding quite why there is such a push for covid vaccines when we haven’t seen any such mandatory push for other life saving vaccines in Kenya. I just had a quick look at some Kenyan figures;

Each year there are 10.5 million cases of Malaria and 10,500 deaths. To date (so around 18 months) there have been 255k cases of covid and around 5,300 deaths.

Malaria is clearly a much larger risk and problem and has been for some years but I don’t recall ever reading that the Kenyan government had decided not to let citizens into daily society if they were not vaccinated against Malaria. The sole obsession and focus on this one illness and vaccine is bizarre.

Unless you are a mosquito, you cannot pass malaria onto another person

But we are constantly told that the issues are related to number of individuals accessing healthcare services at the same time so how the illness is contracted is irrelevant, reducing occurrence of the illness is what counts.

But it’s still a bigger killer in Kenya, why aren’t the government making sure all citizens have the treatment immediately available for malaria? I have read that they have a comprehensive plan for tackling the problem but that doesn’t involve punishing anyone who chooses not to partake.

Anyway, I don’t want to go off on a tangent about Kenya, I was just using it to illustrate the disproportionate focus on one virus that to many people is not a risk of death.

@Lostinacloud

But it’s still a bigger killer in Kenya, why aren’t the government making sure all citizens have the treatment immediately available for malaria? I have read that they have a comprehensive plan for tackling the problem but that doesn’t involve punishing anyone who chooses not to partake.

True, but the reason I specifically commented was because you said

don’t recall ever reading that the Kenyan government had decided not to let citizens into daily society if they were not vaccinated against Malaria.

Going into "daily society" does not increase the risk towards you or anyone else of passing malaria on, or you developing worse outcomes from malaria, whether you're vaccinated or not.

@Lostinacloud

Anyway, I don’t want to go off on a tangent about Kenya, I was just using it to illustrate the disproportionate focus on one virus that to many people is not a risk of death.

People had the right idea from the outset which was to protect those who were at risk from poor outcomes but oh the outrage at the suggestion 🤷🏻‍♀️

@userperuser

ichundich

He could have contracted it from somebody vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Nobody has said that the vaccine doesn’t prevent covid but it does only reduce transmission and does not eliminate it, even 100% will not eliminate it and reduced transmission is pointless to the individual who contracts it.

It's not pointless because vaccinated people tend to shed less virus; therefore the person who contracts Covid from them is more likely to have only a mild form of the disease. Also if enough people were vaccinated this doctor might not have contracted Covid at all.

ichundich

Read posts above, none of your assertions are necessarily correct and it comes down to why the people this doctor was treating needed the treatment in the first place as one thing that’s fact is that poor outcomes are overwhelmingly in those with high BMI.

See how playing the blame game is unhelpful and could badly backfire?

@userperuser

ichundich

Read posts above, none of your assertions are necessarily correct and it comes down to why the people this doctor was treating needed the treatment in the first place as one thing that’s fact is that poor outcomes are overwhelmingly in those with high BMI.

See how playing the blame game is unhelpful and could badly backfire?

Also those at high risk are people with low levels of vitamin d (this includes all ethnicities but those with darker skin are more are risk) and any other comorbidities. High BMI is only one of them.

@userperuser

ichundich

Read posts above, none of your assertions are necessarily correct and it comes down to why the people this doctor was treating needed the treatment in the first place as one thing that’s fact is that poor outcomes are overwhelmingly in those with high BMI.

See how playing the blame game is unhelpful and could badly backfire?

I'm not playing a blame game, but since you want to go down that route: 1/3 of the UK population aren't fully vaccinated, another 1/3 of those unvaccinated people will be in the overweight or obese category. So what about them? It's been proven time and again that being vaccinated lowers your chance of catching coronavirus as well as serious outcomes, including death. To claim otherwise, is simply spreading misinformation. www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

DayKay

That is correct. I take vit D it’s such a simple step that might help, NHS would be wise to issue for free to all people on low incomes, I’d happily go and buy some for anyone in need.

ichundich

Exactly what I was saying, how about turning the attention to those putting themselves at risk by their lifestyle.

A lot of the unvaccinated tend to be in much lower risk groups, those higher risk fear more for themselves and are less likely to be unvaccinated.

LobsterNapkin

Which Province are you in? I'm in Quebec

Legault the Premier is a right wing authoritarian .

He has emergency powers which he refusing to cede. He also thinks he's answerable to no one

He refuses to debate anything in the legislature.

@userperuser so true.

But like you said, oh the outrage as suggesting quite a lot of the population aren’t going to get seriously ill!

@ichundich 1/3 aren't fully vaccinated?!

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

This is age 12+ stats so they only get one dose, where is your source that says 1/3 aren't vaccinated? Over 80% admitted to ICU for treatment due to Covid are overweight/obese