I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

@toomuchlaundry

But *@XenoBitch* you post that you have severe needle/medical phobia. A friend’s daughter has Long COVID. She has had to have numerous medical appointments including many blood tests. So how would you cope with that?

That is your friend's daughter, not me.

Vaccines aren’t perfect. But in this case they REDUCE the chance of transmission, and the severity of illness. So that means you’re less likely to get it from a vaccinated person and less likely to get it if you are vaccinated and also less ill if you do get it when vaccinated. Great news! If you have another illness you might also have a chance of getting hospital treatment if they’re not jammed up with Covid patients. But you know, why worry about facts.

You would very much think they're perfect, by how they're being pushed - and the way people are being encouraged to be lined up into two groups: the safe and those in great danger.

Nowhere in the pro-vaccine publicity have I ever seen any suggestion of them not being perfect - none of the equivalent of the 'your home is at risk....' small print, warning people that, even if they do have the vaccine, they still can't be reassured of being protected. It's pretty much 'done-deal' sold as a magic bullet that smart people accept and are safe, stupid people refuse and are severely at risk, and that's all you need to know.

Even the way the phrase 'anti-vaxxer' has now been taken from its original clear understanding - describing the vociferous people and groups campaigning, publicising, politicising and promoting their strong opinions that nobody should take the vaccine at all - and extended to apply to everybody who receives the offer and decides to decline for themselves. Makes as much sense as calling somebody anti-XXX regarding everything in the supermarket they decline to put in their trolley.

[quote Brittanyspringer]@wingingmumlife

You need to actually do research on why the vaccine was developed so quickly. It’s not a new vaccine as such, they have been using their knowledge of other viruses (decades of research) such as SARS to develop the covid vaccine. It happened so quickly because of global funding. The reason why other vaccines take years to make is because they simply don’t have the funds. They have to wait for things to be approved, it all takes so much time. But for covid the whole world has been working on the virus. They haven’t skipped any steps. They’ve just had all the resources to have made the vaccine so quickly.

What I don’t understand is people like yourself will have vaccines for others diseases but not covid. Just because they have been around longer, taken years to make without even doing any research into the making of the vaccine. You have the same chance of developing symptoms from the vaccine then you would any other vaccine. I bet you didn’t bother researching all those vaccines you and your daughter have had. You just had it to protect yourself and your child. No different to taking the covid vaccine![/quote]
This is such an important point and is continually overlooked in this debate!

@eandz13 I do have crippling anxiety actually - so severe it's stopped me from working and leaving the house. I still believe its fair to rule that the vaccine is mandatory for health workers, as other serious transmissible diseases are.

Call their bluff. They won’t sack thousands of healthcare workers come Feb/April. They can’t - the NHS is short staffed as it is, and it’s not as if they can magically train new staff in that timeframe.

My guess is they will extend the Feb deadline, then reverse the decision as quietly as possible in the spring.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Vaccines aren’t perfect. But in this case they REDUCE the chance of transmission, and the severity of illness. So that means you’re less likely to get it from a vaccinated person and less likely to get it if you are vaccinated and also less ill if you do get it when vaccinated. Great news! If you have another illness you might also have a chance of getting hospital treatment if they’re not jammed up with Covid patients. But you know, why worry about facts.

You would very much think they're perfect, by how they're being pushed - and the way people are being encouraged to be lined up into two groups: the safe and those in great danger.

Nowhere in the pro-vaccine publicity have I ever seen any suggestion of them not being perfect - none of the equivalent of the 'your home is at risk....' small print, warning people that, even if they do have the vaccine, they still can't be reassured of being protected. It's pretty much 'done-deal' sold as a magic bullet that smart people accept and are safe, stupid people refuse and are severely at risk, and that's all you need to know.

Even the way the phrase 'anti-vaxxer' has now been taken from its original clear understanding - describing the vociferous people and groups campaigning, publicising, politicising and promoting their strong opinions that nobody should take the vaccine at all - and extended to apply to everybody who receives the offer and decides to decline for themselves. Makes as much sense as calling somebody anti-XXX regarding everything in the supermarket they decline to put in their trolley.

With respect, that’s absolute crap. There’s endless information saying exactly how they help without saying they’re perfect. I see scientists patiently correcting misinformation over and over. If you’re not seeing it then you don’t want to.

Time for a career change then. If you're not going to be vaccinated against transmissible diseases then don't work in healthcare. You've been given an extremely generous timeframe, use it to look for your new job.

[quote Brittanyspringer]@wingingmumlife

You need to actually do research on why the vaccine was developed so quickly. It’s not a new vaccine as such, they have been using their knowledge of other viruses (decades of research) such as SARS to develop the covid vaccine. It happened so quickly because of global funding. The reason why other vaccines take years to make is because they simply don’t have the funds. They have to wait for things to be approved, it all takes so much time. But for covid the whole world has been working on the virus. They haven’t skipped any steps. They’ve just had all the resources to have made the vaccine so quickly.

What I don’t understand is people like yourself will have vaccines for others diseases but not covid. Just because they have been around longer, taken years to make without even doing any research into the making of the vaccine. You have the same chance of developing symptoms from the vaccine then you would any other vaccine. I bet you didn’t bother researching all those vaccines you and your daughter have had. You just had it to protect yourself and your child. No different to taking the covid vaccine![/quote]
www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

With respect, that’s absolute crap. There’s endless information saying exactly how they help without saying they’re perfect. I see scientists patiently correcting misinformation over and over. If you’re not seeing it then you don’t want to.

Oh, the info is there if you look/ask for it - but all the soundbites I see (and you may well disagree) only ever seem to proclaim the positives and make it sound like a magic elixir.

All financial investment products that now legally have to carry the warning small-print ('your home is at risk', 'investments can go down as well as up' etc.) will have supporting literature available for everybody to see the big picture - but enough people must not have thought it necessary (or realised that it wasn't quite that foolproof) for that legislation to have been considered necessary in the first place.

I wonder how many people out there have simply taken on board the basic overriding 'be safe - get the vaccine' message and now believe themselves to be much better protected than they actually can be.

[quote wingingmumlife]@ChildrenGrowingUpTooFast no one is forcing me to have the vaccine?

Tell me then, when is this going to end? I take it you've had both vaccines? I'm sure it was on the news the other day that those who have had both vaccines will be classed as unvaccinated until they've had their booster jab? Then what? That expires so you have to have another, then another, then another... You get my point.

You say no one is forcing me to have the vaccine but I already can't go to certain places unless I've had it. Look at Dublin, Ireland, you can't do anything over there unless you've had both vaccines. Want to visit a restaurant? Have to have had both vaccines. Want to visit a cinema? Have to have had both vaccines? Want to go into a supermarket? Have to have had both vaccines. That will happen here, then try and tell me no one is forcing me to have the vaccine. Come off it, seriously.

I have worked all through the pandemic from the very start, through the peak, with no vaccine and now I'm being told I will loose my job and have to choose between putting food on the table for me and my daughter or I can have the vaccine and this will all go away, except it won't. I'm pretty sure you would have been happy to have received medical care by someone unvaccinated last year right? But any how, you've had your vaccine, if you trust it so much then why you so bothered if I've had it or not? It protects you right? I'm putting myself at risk by choosing not to have the vaccine. I've chose not to have the vaccine due to my health anxiety. That's my choice. It should be MY choice.

For a virus with a high survival rate (especially for people my age) we should be able to make that choice wether or not we want to have it. [/quote]
But it's not just about you.

We want this virus to be as weak as possible. The more there are vaccinated the fewer 'options' it has.

It's such a shame people weren't around/don't know about the time when polio, diphtheria and TB were rife. People were desperate and very grateful for vaccines.

@wingingmumlife

I wish more people on this thread understood health anxiety.

Every week it is something new I worry about, I wish I didn't - but I do.

I've tried to self medicate, I've tried counselling and I've tried prescribed medication. Nothing helps.

Just to put it into perspective how bad my health anxiety is, not so long ago, I was having heart palpitations - rang my GP who prescribed beta blockers except I didn't take them because I thought they would stop my heart.

I rang my GP about a deep throbbing pain, they suspected DVT, sent me for a chest x-ray except I didn't have one done but I was scared of radiation risks (even though I use a microwave and have been on aeroplanes) I spent hours researching into x-ray risks and possible side effects until finally I had an x-ray but then suffered with depression after because I though that the x-ray was going to kill me.

Those are just two examples of many. Unless you've experienced it, you will never know. I hate it, I wish it wasn't me and I don't understand it. It sounds ridiculous to most and a lot of people tend to laugh at me (I'm used to it now) but believe me it is severely draining.

Now you are just giving example after example of your lack of judgement and intelligence.

Every job with any sort of responsibility has aspects that might be considered intrusive. I suppose I might say having to have enhanced DBS checks cause me stress (they don't, but I know that some colleagues feel differently). But if I don't like it, I can stop working with other people's children.

My friend died of covid. Please get over yourself and get vaccinated.

My schoolfriends mum died after having her benefits stopped. It was well known what was going on and people still voted for more of it. Ppl only found their concern for vulnerable people post Covid.

When they could use them as a tool to emotionally blackmail others.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

With respect, that’s absolute crap. There’s endless information saying exactly how they help without saying they’re perfect. I see scientists patiently correcting misinformation over and over. If you’re not seeing it then you don’t want to.

Oh, the info is there if you look/ask for it - but all the soundbites I see (and you may well disagree) only ever seem to proclaim the positives and make it sound like a magic elixir.

All financial investment products that now legally have to carry the warning small-print ('your home is at risk', 'investments can go down as well as up' etc.) will have supporting literature available for everybody to see the big picture - but enough people must not have thought it necessary (or realised that it wasn't quite that foolproof) for that legislation to have been considered necessary in the first place.

I wonder how many people out there have simply taken on board the basic overriding 'be safe - get the vaccine' message and now believe themselves to be much better protected than they actually can be.

I honestly don’t know where anyone could have got the idea from that there’s no risk to a vaccine. There’s risks to eating peanut butter, crossing the road, taking a painkiller, having sex. Nothing is risk free. Look - I don’t know better than you or anyone else whether the vaccines are ultimately the best option. Certainly they’re not infallible along with the companies that make them (cheers Pfizer). But based on what we’re being told by the relevant scientists, they’re wildly our best option right now.

For the people that haven’t had it, are cautioning against it, even the OP with her concerns, then I have a question. Do you genuinely wish everyone that has had it, had not? In your heart of hearts would you actually want people to walk away from it now? Do you genuinely wish it didn’t exist? Because I think, although the answer might vary, a lot of you really wouldn’t, deep down, want the millions who have taken it, and will continue to, to have not. And if so, why is that, really? Honestly.

I feel like my human rights have been taken away

They haven't.

Many professions require occupational vaccinations. Sewage workers, for example, must be immunised against Typhoid. You don't hear them complaining. There are British citizens who really have had their human rights taken away by the British government. You aren't one of them.

As mentioned upthread, the vaccine has arrived so quickly because of the amount of money that was thrown at it. Acquiring funding can usually take years. Also, have you noticed that most medications have a brand name and logo? Like my HRT, for example - it isn't just called 'Oestrogen', it has a brand name and a pretty pink box. These take months to design. You'll know that the vaccines don't have brand names. That's to save time, given the urgency of the matter.

My personal feeling is that I never want to go through another lockdown again. That's why we need to get Covid under control and the more people are vaccinated, the sooner this will happen.

userperuser ive read that report and others like it and I think it’s quite worrying it’s not being discussed.

There’s quite a bit of discussion about it, I’ve seen a lot on Twitter and some news reports. Some discussions about the reporter himself and his prior vaccine related views.. Some responses from other staff at the BMJ.

"It just seems strange that they will happily let us work through winter unvaccinated but as long as we get both doses by April 1st which is the start of the NHS financial year then that's ok?"

Exactly this. They are not doing it out of a genuine concern for people. If they were, the change would come into effect immediately. They are doing it for financial gain, the same way they always have. They can't force people to get the jab, but they can make life incredibly miserable and difficult for people who don't. It's coercion and its illegal. But people are naïve and believe the government only act in our best interest. The fact of the matter is that the pharmaceutical industry is one of the richest industries in the world. If people are sick, they need medecine which lines the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies and politicians. By giving people an experimental jab, it will cause long term side effects and health issues and the cycle continues.

I have no issues with people having the jab, each to their own but I wouldn't have it.

Also great to be in a country where availability to vaccines is a given. It’s a privilege to be in this situation. This choice.

Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

Okay, I assume that you don't accept the 'official' reason, which is that Covid-19 is a new and highly contagious virus with a high fatality rate and a high rate of long-term effects compared to most similar viruses.

Due to the newness of the virus, there is no natural population immunity anywhere in the world, so anyone unvaccinated is vulnerable to catching and spreading it (and suffering the ill effects). In addition, even a number of vaccinated individuals are vulnerable to the ill effects due to the nature of this particular virus.

So comprehensive, widespread vaccination is the most effective way to reduce spread (this is the community responsibility for vaccination) and increase protection for the vulnerable from hospitalisation/fatalities (this is the reason individuals should get vaccinated).

My first question to you – what is it, exactly, about that explanation that seems unbelievable to you? What part of it exactly do you take issue with to the degree that you think there might be another reason for governments to be mandating vaccination in close-contact businesses?

And my second question – if you don't believe this is the real explanation, what do you think the real reason is? Don't brush this away with "I don't know" or "It could be anything". Everything is done for a reason, and it's really important to incorporate reasoning into your choices.

If you truly cannot come up with an alternative explanation that seems believable, what you are left with is that your fear of vaccination is completely about your fear of the unknown. A dark, threatening but ultimately faceless spectre. And of course, if you can't name or describe the spectre if you can't say what it actually is, you can't shine a light on it, you can't look at it closely and work out, hang on, is this really real or is it my imagination working overtime? And you can't defeat it.

That's your health anxiety, in a nutshell. The Unknown. If you want to defeat it, you have to move it from the world of the Unknown and Unreal and Irrational to the world of the Known and the Real and the Rational. Stare it down. Make it show itself clearly. If you are going to choose to hurt yourself by take drastic measures like sacrificing your job and avoiding X rays that could save your life for the sake of this spectre of health anxiety, you owe it to yourself to really confront what it is.

@Gymohithoughtyousaidgin

"It just seems strange that they will happily let us work through winter unvaccinated but as long as we get both doses by April 1st which is the start of the NHS financial year then that's ok?"

Exactly this. They are not doing it out of a genuine concern for people. If they were, the change would come into effect immediately. They are doing it for financial gain, the same way they always have. They can't force people to get the jab, but they can make life incredibly miserable and difficult for people who don't. It's coercion and its illegal. But people are naïve and believe the government only act in our best interest. The fact of the matter is that the pharmaceutical industry is one of the richest industries in the world. If people are sick, they need medecine which lines the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies and politicians. By giving people an experimental jab, it will cause long term side effects and health issues and the cycle continues.

I have no issues with people having the jab, each to their own but I wouldn't have it.

Fair enough. Out of interest, if you do have a hospital trip for Covid or any other disease, will you be googling and Facebook researching before each medication they suggest, maybe a quick YouTube rathole? I’m feeling so lax now that during my last hospital stay I didn’t do my own research on each drug. I’m such a fool!

The government doesn’t allow you to drive over the alcohol limit because statistics show that you present a greatly increased risk to others if you do.

The government won’t allow you to work in healthcare unvaccinated because statistics show that you present a greatly increased risk to others if you do.

I think after what happened at gosport hospital it might actually be very wise to google what medication you’re given.

Blind trust didn’t end well for the patients there.

I would go with option 1. Book an appointment with your G.P to discuss whatever you think is in the vaccine and also get medication for anxiety. Then get vaccinated and keep your job.

I don’t personally care if people are vaccinated or not, I do understand that people don’t want to be forced into having something done that they don’t want- there’s no way I’d lose my job over it though.

What do you think would happen to healthcare if all healthcare workers decided that feeling anxious about getting vaccinated outweighed their responsibilities to protect their patients? Why are you the special one?

Anyone fearing the vaccine, please view this video. It's amazing and very easy to understand.

The vaccine is only a threat to the virus.

Please, everyone watch this and share: