I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

But any how, you've had your vaccine, if you trust it so much then why you so bothered if I've had it or not?

There are many vulnerable people who cannot, for medical reasons, have the vaccine. They need to visit the dentist too. They'd be bothered.

OP there are other reasons than you making patients sick why your employer would want you to be vaccinated that are perfectly ordinary & just in the employers interest:

-you’re more likely to get sick with covid and need time off work.
-COVID is now largely a preventable illness, it’s understandable your employer doesn’t want to have to foot the bill for covering for yourself time off work because you chose not to prevent it.
-if you’re exposed, you’ll need to quarantine, & need more time off work. Work doesn’t make government quarantine rules & they need to safeguard their ability to provide a service.
-your clients may not be comfortable having a dental nurse who is not vaccinated & leave the practice. I would. Your employer doesn’t want to lose clients.
-it does reduce transmission substantially, a recent study in the Lancet found it reduced household transmission by more than 50%.
-whether or not you personally are comfortable with the vaccine or indeed vaccine science generally, it IS pretty settled & it’s highly highly unusual for side effects to appear more than a few months after vaccination, & at this stage it has been studied extremely closely for over a year. It’s not unreasonable for an employer to make a decision based on facts.

Having health anxiety is undoubtedly incredibly stressful, but it’s also not your employers fault and ultimately up to you to manage as an adult. You could have anxiety about something else and suddenly have to deal with it your work place, it’s also not your employers fault.

"One photo, provided to The BMJ, showed needles discarded in a plastic biohazard bag instead of a sharps container box"

Shock! horror! The vaccine will kill us all!

What a load of bollocks. That article in the BMJ is talking about crappy process and procedure at one (out of many) trial centres. So what! My friend is a director of clinical trials at a large pharmaceutical company and says this kind of thing happens all the time!

Did you give a shit about clinical trials for the fags you smoke? The gel you use on your nails? The chemicals in your wax melts and air fresheners? Harmful chemicals in your perfume? No of course you didn't.

And enough with the rushed bollocks too. The AZ vector was in development for 10 years before it was used for covid. Even if the science was brand new for others (it wasn't) the pandemic started coming up for 2 years ago.

This misplaced anxiety isn't worth losing your job over. But perhaps someone with such severe anxiety shouldnt be working in a healthcare or dental setting anyway. I mean you're surrounded by drugs and chemicals and harmful X rays and radiation. Perhaps see this as an opportunity to get into a job that will suit you better.

I am not an anti vaxxer either, and actually have a medical background hence why I am so reluctant to take the COVID 19 vaccine - because the research on mRNA technology used in the Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna etc is frankly scary and nobody knows the long term side effects of this technology. Short term, the vaccine has the potential to cause severe reactions, and long term, we simply don´t know what might happen.

The Chinese made vaccines do NOT use the new mRNA technology. They are made the same way as other vaccines, and so they don´t have this same risk in terms of unknown long term effects.

My solution was to take this vaccine, which is now accepted in the UK. You will be allowed in everywhere, but you won´t have to worry about the potential long term side effects of mRNA technology.

I don´t live in the UK, so am not sure if it´s available yet, but considering it´s now accepted by the UK government, I hope it might be soon (although you might need to get it privately).

It´s not about refusing the vaccine, or being an anti vaxxer, despite what people say. In fact, most of the people I know who have reservations about mRNA technology come from a medical background (or similar field). It´s about acting through reason and not fear, and not rushing into something to save your health in the short term, which might damage your health in the long term.

It´s a funny world we live in where those people being cautious to make rational and education decisions are insulted and labelled as stupid. But that´s what fear does to people.

I keep hearing that some vulnerable people cannot have the vaccine.

Who are they? What medical conditions do they have that the vaccine would harm them? What research has been done about this and where is the government guidance?

Because there’s plenty of people with pretty serious medical conditions that dont want the vaccine because they are concerned about how it might effect their already compromised health. Some of those people will be in jobs like the op and will face a difficult decision.

There seems to be only 2 medical exemptions to the mandates and one is severe allergic reaction to a mRNA vaccine and the other is receiving end of life care. (I do wonder how someone receiving end of life care is able to work though)

I think if there was a range of illnesses that meant the vaccine could do harm in people with certain medical conditions then surely they would be exempt. We would have received some guidance about it and we haven’t. And we’re not going to, not ever because it’s nonsensical.

I’m tired of hearing about the hypothetical vulnerable person who’s unable to be vaccinated arguments..There’s no list of illnesses, no guidance and no research.

I think what might be happening is that some people who are already poorly and don’t want the jab have a sympathetic doctor. And also it is being used to manipulate, much like don’t kill granny.

I’m an (ex)HCP but still work in health, not pt facing. I’ve had many friends and ex-colleagues work throughout the pandemic and know the realities.

I’ve been vaccinated, it was beneficial for myself. Some of my (adult) kids have had it as it is beneficial for them versus risk. The others have not as it’s not beneficial for them. Have we all had Covid pre-vax availability, yes. Was I sick as a dog, yes. One of my kids who does have risk factors was sick but equivalent to a decent bout of flu sick. The others, although positive, did not have one symptom. I fully support their decision not to be vaccinated and so do all of my friends still on the coal face. Luckily, unlike the OP, they can pretty much go about life/employment without being done at present and hopefully that will continue until this becomes a new norm that people are forced to live with without the hysteria.

I’ve seen this become a really slippery slope. Where we are the government now has a huge push to essentially bully the regulator into approving this for kids (no matter what) and same with our equivalent of JCVI and it is really concerning. It is coming to the point where once data becomes available for the under 2yo cohort I fear for those having babies. Where I once would have snorted and thought it complete tin foil hat stuff, I know wouldn’t blink an eye with the thought of babies not being allowed to leave hospitals with parents if no consent to vax at birth. The slippery slope has well and truly passed at this point and anyone who thinks it hasn’t is a fool.

I am not an anti vaxxer either, and actually have a medical background hence why I am so reluctant to take the COVID 19 vaccine - because the research on mRNA technology used in the Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna etc is frankly scary and nobody knows the long term side effects of this technology.

"While Moderna and Pfizer are based on mRNA, the AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine. This means it uses a different mechanism to create an immune response."

True what you say about Ireland you need a pass to do a lot (I’m here at the minute visiting family)

You can do shops without - but hospitality/cinemas etc to sit indoors you need a pass

Now they changing nightclubs hours to midnight curfew 🤦‍♀️

Not sure how I feel shout it tbh

I’m one mind I’m like yeah those who got vaccinated deserve to move in with life and if you chose to not have it tough

But the curfew thing has pissed me off as the vaccinated are now also having life curtailed again - why

When does it end

I am fully vaccinated and still got Covid. A group of us all got it and all vaccinated except one person. That person endd up in hospital. I think the reason the vaccine is being pushed is to keep people out of hospital as our ICUs will not be able to cope. I am in lreland and we are getting stressed in the whole hospital area and figures show a lot of those in hospital are not vaccinated.
I would be shocked if l realised my dentist wasn't vaccinated or the dental nurse as l rarely go anywhere but a visit to the dentist could be mandatory if l suddenly got toothache. I have a choice about restaurants etc but not my dentist.
Here in lreland it's compulsory for our post workers to be vaccinated. I have never been in close contact with my postman but my dentist is half way down my throat for long periods of time . I expect them to be fully vaccinated.

I have sympathy for health anxiety but it will not be helped if you end up in hospital surrounded by Covid sufferers. In the beginning l was shocked by the decision to force certain people to take it but now with it continuing l am getting impatient with the refusers..sorry!
In Romania only about 30% are vaccinated and their death rate is massive.

I think everyone should have the choice to have the vaccine or not.
But I also think people in a caring role should be vaccinated,it’s part of caring ..you keep the person you care for safe.
You have plenty of time to get another job ..one that’s more suited to you ,because a caring profession ,is just that ,caring ..
So many people have died from this hideous COVID
Why would anyone in a caring profession want to put anyone else at risk .

Constant worry and stress about losing your job or have a couple of jabs with mostly no side affects for ppl hmmm such a hard decision. People thought the same about other jabs in the past and look how they turned out. Be a smart person.

These are my own personal thoughts.

Those lateral flow tests are rubbish and they do not work half the time and I think they make people more anxious (repeatedly taking test) when the line is unclear.

Some of us will be affected if we lock down myself included with school closures and having to have time off of work in my new role again potentially this year won't look good for me.

I'm quite fed up of the lockdown and will dread it if it happens again! So far things seem to be steady away with the vaccine.... so I'm happy to have taken mine plus I love travelling.

@Summersnake

I think everyone should have the choice to have the vaccine or not. But I also think people in a caring role should be vaccinated,it’s part of caring ..you keep the person you care for safe. You have plenty of time to get another job ..one that’s more suited to you ,because a caring profession ,is just that ,caring .. So many people have died from this hideous COVID Why would anyone in a caring profession want to put anyone else at risk .

But are homes let unvaccinated family members in to look after their loved ones. People are allowed in after doing do a lateral flow test first. If that’s good enough for family, why is it not good enough fir staff?

If you are wearing full PPE and testing every day the risk is less of passing it on than a double vaccinated person who takes no precautions.

When does it end*

Exactly

The question that all the pro-jabbers studiously avoid is, why are they letting these staff work through the winter season unjabbed? This makes no sense at all. These jabs have been available for months, so this mandate could have been put into place in time for the winter season. But no, they can work throughout that, unjabbed, and once it's over and we're coming into spring they have to get jabbed or be sacked.

This shows it's not about health but politics.

If you are wearing full PPE and testing every day the risk islessof passing it on than a double vaccinated person who takes no precautions.*

Have you had to wear a FFP3 mask for 13 hours? Hospital staff and care home staff are not provided with these anymore for each patient and resident. Working in a nursing home the correct PPE which most of then will not have (lack of money). It would need to be changed between each patient/resident. It's not practical.

@OnePerfectCartwheel

Call their bluff. They won’t sack thousands of healthcare workers come Feb/April. They can’t - the NHS is short staffed as it is, and it’s not as if they can magically train new staff in that timeframe.

My guess is they will extend the Feb deadline, then reverse the decision as quietly as possible in the spring.

They have rolled out vax dependencies in AUS - no changes to timelines/decisions. Most health care workers who protested quickly chose to be vaccinated after the deadline.

AUS has the same staffing issue as NHS.

I have sympathy OP. What we are living is dreadful. Now that there are more facts about the vaccine and the virus it makes less sense to try to coerce this way. I personally believe that this is going to be stopped but I know how worry you must be.

Btw I had my two vaccines but will not have the booster.

I agree.
Welcome to my world OP, except it’s already happened here in NSW.
YABU to post on here though cos most people will just shut you down. Mumsnet likes to operate like that.
Stand your ground. You have 6 months!! Anything can change before then. Don’t do anything yet. Just wait.

Too bad. People going to the dentist aren’t going to want an unvaccinated dentistry assistant poking around in the mouth in the middle of COVID are they?

So, you don't mind having other vaccinations but just don't want this one? Sorry but I don't get the logic of that, or of the whole argument that it's not been tested enough. You don't 'know' how long anything is tested for, but I do know that lots of people including people who appeared otherwise healthy have died from it. | understand that I might still catch covid but hopefully won't get it so bad as the unvaccinated.
And if I have been a guinea pig for the vaccination I don't mind one bit. I hope I have helped, in some small way, to stop this illness.

@Cop26CopOut

I don’t know about dentists but staff in hospitals have had to have Hep B jabs as part of their contract for years. This isn’t new or unprecedented.

Yeah - I sort of saw it as BAU

@User3443525643

OP I have to be brutally honest with you. My husband is a dentist and is in the process of letting two dental nurses go who refuse to get vaccinated. All his colleagues are dealing with similar issues but are more relieved that it's official as they have legal basis rather than being a grey zone. No dentist wants to fire staff and have to restructure their team. However Covid is a once in a century disaster that is bigger than any individual person or business. There are too many risks that come with unvaccinated staff. Vaccinated staff and doctors wearing PPE is basically a 0% transmission chain which is crucial for the entire medical field post-covid. Unvaccinated staff with PPE will always have a slightly higher absolute risk. Sending unvaccinated staff for regular PCR testing reduces that risk but is costly and time-consuming and logistically difficult for a small team.

In your particular case, your problem is health anxiety and not the compulsory vaccine. I have emetophobia and there are situations where I feel absolutely triggered by certain things (eg lack of hygiene in food preparation, places which may involve people being sick) but I am also aware that the problem is entirely my own. There are certain jobs I cannot do because of my phobia (eg nurse, flight attendant, working with small children) and I am willing to take responsibility that it's my own fault due to MH issues. So regarding your original post, you have to understand that it's NOT about you. The bigger picture is much more complex and serious than one dental nurse with a phobia of the vaccine. Covid is a disaster of epic proportions. We have friends who work in hospitals and they have had to witness countless people suffocate to death. Young doctors have to live with the fact that they may be indirectly responsible for killing people due to lack of resources, training and supervision. There are tens of thousands of families mourning loved ones and millions of people who have lost their livelihoods as a result of the pandemic and lockdown. It will only be over once enough people are vaccinated. Catching covid and recovering is not good enough because a small percentage of those patients invariably end up in hospital which will crush a buckling system even further.

If you don't want to get vaccinated then you need to leave the job and retrain as something else. Nobody owes you the job because you have an anxiety disorder that prevents you from being vaccinated. There are many jobs that do no require vaccinations so it doesn't mean you will lose the chance of earning an income.

If you do not want to seek therapy for your health anxiety, then spare a thought for doctors and nurses who have battled the front lines of covid for the past two years. They have worked 24 hour shifts in full-body PPE and watched people die every single day. Imagine the therapy they need for that. The "work" in a dental office is a joke in comparison (husband admits that he got off the easiest from all of his medical colleagues).

this

I totally agree with you. Disgusting, COVID is a total farce, controlled by fear. Not jab no job, vaccine passports etc. Anyone that wants the jab has had it, and now onto the boosters, which will be an ongoing thing you can be sure. People should have a choice and that choice should be respected not punished by threats.

OP, just get the vaccine, you have said you have had other jabs.
Covid has killed at least 143,000 people in the UK in 20 months.
In the 6 years of WW2, 69,000 civilians lost their lives to German attacks.
I wonder how many demonstrations against gas masks and air raid shelters there were?