I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

I'm a HCP (but fortunately in Wales where drakeford has stated there will be no mandatory vaccines for nhs/carers).

I have suffered from immune thrombocytopenia and even this is not enough to meet the criteria for being legitimately unvaccinated (allergic to component of the vaccine is pretty much it). A study had been published this week that shows that more than 1 in 10 (12%) of ITP sufferers will have a crash in platelet levels (bad enough to require hospitalisation in some cases) following the vaccine.

I have resisted having the vaccine so far due to concerns about what the risk might be for me and been called anti-vacc, stupid and selfish as a consequence. I'm low risk for covid so don't require the vaccine for my own sake and don't particularly fancy bruising, bleeding, requiring a course of high dose steroids and even being hospitalised for the "greater good".

This whole situation makes me so f**king angry.

You know, I hated having the vaccine too. But I got it anyway. Because of pressure, and because I need to travel.

Yanbu to not want the vaccine, but I think it’s absolutely crazy to give up your career for it. Unless you wanted to do that anyway.

But then I have no experience with health anxiety. What would it take for you to slay this health anxiety?

@Pascal80

OP I agree with you 100%. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but don't let anyone push or bully you into anything you don't want to do.

Well, except her employer, who is well within his/her rights to fire the op if she refuses the vaccine.

My partner who works in ICU but off sick is battling with their mental health and desperate to return to work because they feel guilty at leaving their colleagues in the lurch. Not one of the people in intensive care with covid when they went off sick was vaccinated. An entire ward full of unvaccinated people who were maybe scared of the vaccine or wanted to retain bodily autonomy or were worried about channeling 5g or whatever. I bet they’d choose differently now.

You have a choice in this. It may not seem fair to you but what I find unfair is seeing my usually strong and happy partner reduced to a shell of the man he was pre pandemic. They are unable to work because of the effects this pandemic has had on them and they want to work.they usually love their work. You have a choice to keep working and get the vaccine and you choose not to. The reason you choose not to is irrelevant, it is still a choice you’re making and we’re all responsible for the consequences of our own life’s choices.

@user698312578

I can’t imagine your employer telling customers that some of their staff isn’t vaccinated, kind of absurd during a pandemic.

You'd be very surprised at how many dental nurses are not vaccinated! One of the highest demographics of vaccine refusers are young females who are convinced they are healthy and are more susceptible to pleasing the opinions of those around them (friends, family members etc) instead of doing their own research and making scientifically informed decisions. One of DH's nurses is not anti-vaxx per se but her mother is and she is too scared of disappointing her by getting vaccinated.

We know many dentists with their own practices and loads who work in hospitals & clinics so this isn't anecdotal evidence, but basically real stats across the board. Female dentists are almost 100% vaccinated, however the rate amongst nurses/assistants are only 60%, maybe 70% max. So if you walk into any dental clinic today, there's a 1/3 chance that the assistant or hygienist treating you is not vaccinated. This is why the vaccine mandate was a sigh of relief for many. It's crap having to rehire and retrain the team but the majority of people will expect to be treated by medical staff who are vaccinated and wearing PPE.

Then there's also the liability issue. Many people were convinced they caught covid from the dentist and although an official link has always been discredited, most patients are also not aware how many unvaccinated nurses there are. Dentists will never reveal this because they also have their own businesses to run and the worst PR possible is obviously someone catching covid in your clinic.

I'm double vaxxed but I abhor the level of coercion that's being done to make people comply with vaccinations they don't want - often by people who call themselves left wing liberals. People are entitled to bodily autonomy. Breech that, and you're on a very slippery slope indeed.

@Lostinacloud

When I was pregnant I went to the dentist a few times and never did I think to myself - hmm, what if the dental nurse hasn’t had her rubella vaccine. After the dentist I went to the hairdressers and never did I think to myself - hmm, what if the hairdresser hasn’t had her measles vaccine. Why? Because 1. It’s none of my damn business and 2. I’d had my rubella and measles vaccine and so was protected.

Some people have lost all sense of comparison and rational thought when it comes to covid.

Since early 2020 there's been 9.6 million Covid infections in the UK (and 143,000 deaths) compared to a few hundred measles infections.

So yes you're right, some people have lost all sense of comparison.

YANB even a tiny bit U OP. Hopefully by April things will have changed and you won’t have to worry anymore...this is just not sustainable long term, just look at the crisis in care homes.

I have not had the vaccine due to severe needle/medical phobia.

So severe you spend half your life on the Covid threads berating people on a topic that really should be triggering for you, with a severe phobia.

Have the vaccine. It is safe and effective. I'm genuinely appalled that people working in healthcare are stupid enough not to understand this.

@milkyaqua

I have not had the vaccine due to severe needle/medical phobia.

So severe you spend half your life on the Covid threads berating people on a topic that really should be triggering for you, with a severe phobia.

Yes, it is someone coming at me with a needle that is a trigger, not a post on the internet. You don't get to say what triggers me.

I am so sorry that you are in this predicament, wingingmumlife. The problem is that the impact of health anxiety was rarely appreciated even before the pandemic. The pandemic has contributed to health anxiety - look at all the people on Mumsnet who say they still wash groceries, post etc months after it was shown that the virus did not transmit this way.

I am much older than you, double vaccinated, and going to get my booster tomorrow so we are not in the same position at all. The one thing I would say is that I suspect there has never been a vaccine tested on so many people since smallpox was eradicated. I say this because TB & MMR vaccination rates vary considerably by country. I recognise that the risks of the vaccine versus the the risks of being severely affected by covid are different for different groups. I've got a cough and a cold at the moment and all I can think is how much worse it would be to feel breathless when I cough.

I know that your risk of being severely affected by Covid are lower than mine because of your age. Set against that, I've been working at home and have had nowhere near the risks of someone working in dentistry, given we know the virus is spread by aerosol transmission.

I hope you can find a way of allaying your fears over the next few weeks.

eandz13
How very lucky are the folk on this thread who have clearly never experienced a crippling anxiety. Dick heads

This.
Am rapidly losing all faith in humanity tbh.

I’m also losing my faith in humanity, but because of all the ‘human rights’ and ‘personal freedoms’ bleating. How about doing something because it’s part of the solution for everyone instead of the constant self obsessed bollocks all the time. Thank god previous generations got on with vaccinations in the past. Nobody thought they were without risk or perfect. They just did it as was the best option for everyone.

I'm also baffled as to why so many people who've had all the vaccines are so scared of encountering people who haven't - and demanding that they should be forced to have it too (or otherwise have basic rights/life-choices/facilities/amenities taken away from them).

Surely you have a vaccine to protect yourself, you make decisions for/encourage your loved ones likewise - and then leave strangers to look out for themselves, don't you?

If you have sufficient income to support yourself and your family, you wouldn't dream of going after anybody you meet without a job and trying to browbeat them into gaining employment, imploring them that, until they do, they're putting the financial security of you and your family at risk, would you?

@RaoulDufysCat

Have the vaccine. It is safe and effective. I'm genuinely appalled that people working in healthcare are stupid enough not to understand this.

Are you really though? I would have been once, but not at all surprised these days, unfortunately.

@Lostinacloud

When I was pregnant I went to the dentist a few times and never did I think to myself - hmm, what if the dental nurse hasn’t had her rubella vaccine. After the dentist I went to the hairdressers and never did I think to myself - hmm, what if the hairdresser hasn’t had her measles vaccine. Why? Because 1. It’s none of my damn business and 2. I’d had my rubella and measles vaccine and so was protected.

Some people have lost all sense of comparison and rational thought when it comes to covid.

Completely agree. And where does it end? When covid has gone, are we going to start forcing people to have mandatory flu vaccines too?

@Lostinacloud is bang on. Probably the most sensible comment I've read on here in a long time. I am not vaxxed, neither are my staff, and I certainly won't be forcing it on any one of them. I'm not a hypocrite. If this madness carries on, feel free to PM me for work. If I can help, I will

@NotAnotherPaperclip

YANB even a tiny bit U OP. Hopefully by April things will have changed and you won’t have to worry anymore...this is just not sustainable long term, just look at the crisis in care homes.

The care home situation is completely different....carers are on NMW with poor benefits ..... if they leave they will move to retail or hospitality and earn NMW and poor benefits. On the other hand HCP , if they leave ....it is a completely different ball game....they stand to lose a career, good annual leave entitlement, dood pensions, good sickness provision, progression prospects......it is a lot to give up... most won't...they will end up getting the vaccine ......the government will not back down on this...by April it will be mandatory and OP will have a choice to make

"Imagine a pandemic so severe that we can afford to fire healthcare workers". Especially in an already stretched NHS.

I don't know what I am going to do yet. Thankfully, I have time to think about it. I am going to try and get some sleep now though and then I will wake up tomorrow and worry about it some more

Thank you for those who have offered their support and provided links etc, I will definitely take a look at them.

One last thing too, for those who are so narrow minded about health anxiety, I really hope it something you never have to suffer with.

Why would anyone with such a severe health anxiety work in healthcare?

I had Covid before a vaccine was available. I'm still suffering from that now. Yes you can still get Covid even after a vaccination but it is less likely to be serious requiring hospitalisation. How can health anxiety have you terrified of an effective vaccine but not the virus itself? Genuine question - I've spent my whole career in healthcare. Health anxiety is usually about actual illnesses not the prevention of them.

I'm also baffled as to why so many people who've had all the vaccines are so scared of encountering people who haven't - and demanding that they should be forced to have it too (or otherwise have basic rights/life-choices/facilities/amenities taken away from them).

IKR? We've devolved into a kind of double-think which goes 'the vaccine prevents serious illness, but if you're not vaccinated, you could make me, a vaccinated person, seriously ill.' It defies all logic.

You have a choice in this. It may not seem fair to you but what I find unfair is seeing my usually strong and happy partner reduced to a shell of the man he was pre pandemic. They are unable to work because of the effects this pandemic has had on them and they want to work.they usually love their work.

Exactly this. I know it's a "privilege" to be in circles with doctors or dentist, but it's heartbreaking to see the effect of covid on people you know so well. A really good friend of mine was training as a neurologist but forced into the covid ward during the peak of last winter because they had such a shortage of staff. Even dentists working in hospitals were given crash training on how to intubate covid patients. It literally broke some of them because it wasn't what they ever signed up for.

People who refuse their vaccines for bodily autonomy or anxiety or some other narrow, self-centred reason (this is not saying it's not valid, but a phobia affecting only you is definitely self-centred) have no idea that their decision had a knock on effect which other humans need to deal with. For every extra person that gets sick, doctors somewhere need to deal with it. It's like throwing trash on the ground. For one second it's no longer your problem but obviously someone, somewhere needs to clean it up.

@Lostinacloud

When I was pregnant I went to the dentist a few times and never did I think to myself - hmm, what if the dental nurse hasn’t had her rubella vaccine. After the dentist I went to the hairdressers and never did I think to myself - hmm, what if the hairdresser hasn’t had her measles vaccine. Why? Because 1. It’s none of my damn business and 2. I’d had my rubella and measles vaccine and so was protected.

Some people have lost all sense of comparison and rational thought when it comes to covid.

It’s almost as though the measles vaccine was taken by the vast majority of people and nearly eradicated the disease! That’s incredible! What if there was a vaccine for Covid that if the majority of people took we’d reduce overall transmission?! Oh, wait!!

Ps - might want to read up on what happened when misinformation was spread on the MMR jab and uptake dropped. You could call it doing your own research!

OP it is 100% your right to choose but if you choose to not get it, then you just don’t meet the updated requirements to be employed in your current role.

Have you sought any CBT for your health anxiety? There are lots of people that can talk you through it and hopefully help you own and manage your anxiety

@wingingmumlife

You need to actually do research on why the vaccine was developed so quickly. It’s not a new vaccine as such, they have been using their knowledge of other viruses (decades of research) such as SARS to develop the covid vaccine. It happened so quickly because of global funding. The reason why other vaccines take years to make is because they simply don’t have the funds. They have to wait for things to be approved, it all takes so much time. But for covid the whole world has been working on the virus. They haven’t skipped any steps. They’ve just had all the resources to have made the vaccine so quickly.

What I don’t understand is people like yourself will have vaccines for others diseases but not covid. Just because they have been around longer, taken years to make without even doing any research into the making of the vaccine. You have the same chance of developing symptoms from the vaccine then you would any other vaccine. I bet you didn’t bother researching all those vaccines you and your daughter have had. You just had it to protect yourself and your child. No different to taking the covid vaccine!