Parental Consent for Vaccine

[naughty40me]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

Although according to the Times "Chris Whitty is expected to recommend next week that children aged 12 and over should be vaccinated after expert advisers told him it would benefit their education, mental health and social development"

specifically for the methods it uses which have been widely criticised

Link to where the methods in this study have been ‘widely criticised’ please.

As I’ve pointed out several times, they filtered to try to include only medically reported incidents. And yes, I did say it was a preprint in my post.

link to Times e edition here

epaper.thetimes.co.uk/the-times/20210910/textview

@bumbleymummy

specifically for the methods it uses which have been widely criticised

Link to where the methods in this study have been ‘widely criticised’ please.

As I’ve pointed out several times, they filtered to try to include only medically reported incidents. And yes, I did say it was a preprint in my post.

I don't think I need to provide a link demonstrating that VAERS/yellow card data should not be used as evidence of causality

It's very basic epidemiology and literally posted on the reporting website, and on any release which uses their data

'Thirdly, parents who do not want their children to have it if offered are in a minority. I expect parent/child discordance to be pretty low, so this isn't going to be an issue that is affecting loads of people.'

'The numbers of parents who not want their children to be offered the vaccine are relatively low. Of this number, I expect the number of those that have children opposing their wishes are also small. Therefore, I don't see this being an issue which is going to be impacting a huge amount of people'

You are wrongly assuming that parents not wishing their children to be vaccinated is 'low' and my experience and area tells a very different story. Of parents very much wishing to hold back and wait and see.

There has been a formal review of safety for the Pfizer vaccine for children. The MHRA concluded that it was safe, back in June.

"Dr June Raine, MHRA Chief Executive said:
“We have carefully reviewed clinical trial data in children aged 12 to 15 years and have concluded that the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in this age group and that the benefits of this vaccine outweigh any risk.

“We have in place a comprehensive safety surveillance strategy for monitoring the safety of all UK-approved COVID-19 vaccines and this surveillance will include the 12- to 15-year age group.

“No extension to an authorisation would be approved unless the expected standards of safety, quality and effectiveness have been met."

So, safety doesn't appear to be a concern- according to the MHRA.

Here is the link

www.gov.uk/government/news/the-mhra-concludes-positive-safety-profile-for-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-in-12-to-15-year-olds

On what basis, exactly, are you making the assumption that many parents will vaccinate olly and declining vaccine numbers will be 'low'.

If you are going to quote the polls, I think we should reflect on the small samples, additionally the unwillingness of parents to publicly confirm they wish to wait/wish to decline and the overall general confidence in the vaccines and its side effects. I don't think we are seeing a true picture at all of the unease of parents, and the vaccines.

I am genuinely interested to know where you get the conviction that everyone is keen to get their kids vaccinated with a new vaccine with known harmful side effects?

Well, we may not need to speculate, if the Times are correct that a) these vaccinations will be approved next week and b) it will take "no more than 5 working days" for consent forms to be sent back and vaccinations to begin.

I'm very glad that - if this all goes ahead - consent forms will be used.

It also seems right that teeenagers' wishes will be taken into account, though as had been said elsewhere in discussion, there may be more of a formal process if there is a significant disagreement with a parent.

It doesn't seem right that a teen should be vaccinated against their will.

Neither does it seem right that a teen who thinks vaccination is a good idea should be denied this by, say, an anti vaxer parent.

Neither does it seem right that a school nurse should have to sort it out.

So a further process seems appropriate.

I note that (according to the Times) "Legally, teenagers deemed capable of content will be able to overrule their parents in the case of clashes but school vaccination teams expect such cases to be rare".

And if this all rolls out in the coming weeks, I guess we will be able to see for ourselves how it goes, without having to guess.

"I am genuinely interested to know where you get the conviction that everyone is keen to get their kids vaccinated with a new vaccine with known harmful side effects?"

Me too. I want to know why everyone I know is anxious about it, however this poster must live in some parallel universe to us.

I don't know of one single state secondary school that has a school nurse although I'm sure all have first aiders. In primary in our area school nurse visits are for weighing sessions and stuff. In DD's school, members of staff are not allowed to give unprescribed medicine including parecetamol and when she had a UTI, the office staff said that she was welcome to keep the meds in a school fridge if needed but she needed to administer them to herself.

I think in primary it is different in that staff were trained to administer insulin to the children who needed it. But if your child required something like antibiotics during the day the parent had to go in and give them.

Anyway, today we received a letter from our head saying No child under 16 can or will be vaccinated without your consent – we will send out paperwork to obtain this when/if the time comes. I would guess most schools will do the same no matter what SJ says.

I have linked to the MHRA decision re vaccine safety

@Herecomesthsun

Stop calling parents anti vaxxers, most children in the UK are vaccinated with the standard ones. They are anxious about a new injection that has little data. They are NOT anti-vaxxers. Please please stop spreading mis information.

that was given as an example (e.g. if a child disagreed with a parent who happened to be an antivaxxer, as could happen) Peteycat not a universal epithet for all parents, hope that clarifies the point

petey It is a very prominent discussion with all of my friends that are parents at the moment. Teens over sixteen it is easy to leave it to them to decide. Around 50/50 have taken it up in our admittedly huge cohort. Many siting a lack of published long term data as the reason.

The younger of my dc, that is where the real anguish is being felt. Parents are very torn, most are undecided and some are actively against the idea and will not even contemplate it. Interestingly, there are not too many that are confident that they will go ahead. That is why I was interested to see where olly is getting her assumptions from that everyone will be cheerfully marching their young offspring to be vaccinated. Most parents are very very worried about it.

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

On what basis, exactly, are you making the assumption that many parents will vaccinate olly and declining vaccine numbers will be 'low'.

If you are going to quote the polls, I think we should reflect on the small samples, additionally the unwillingness of parents to publicly confirm they wish to wait/wish to decline and the overall general confidence in the vaccines and its side effects. I don't think we are seeing a true picture at all of the unease of parents, and the vaccines.

I am genuinely interested to know where you get the conviction that everyone is keen to get their kids vaccinated with a new vaccine with known harmful side effects?

I am basing that assumption on ONS statistics (which I have linked on previous threads) not pulling it out of nowhere.

It's not a conviction, it's a statistic generated from population sampling.

the unwillingness of parents to publicly confirm they wish to wait/wish to decline

You realise the ONS surveys and others are anonymous? They don't ask you to shout out your opinion on facebook in order to participate.

apologies for typing "content" instead of "consent" earlier

@Peteycat

"I am genuinely interested to know where you get the conviction that everyone is keen to get their kids vaccinated with a new vaccine with known harmful side effects?"

Me too. I want to know why everyone I know is anxious about it, however this poster must live in some parallel universe to us.

These posts are bizarre.

See my reply above.

Literally no one is insisting that children should be vaccinated.

sweetpea We have two school nurses at our school actually, we have 900+ pupils some are boarding. I don't think we have ever attended a school that did not have a qualified nurse in school. Just our experience, I am not sure about every school in the country.

I agree it looks like the parent consent will be mandatory and fixed in each school, as we have been emailed as well.

I have to say the idea of vaccinating millions of children with mRNA is making me anxious. I am not an anxious person. It is moving too fast and without enough data. I am having a gut feeling about this, and it isn't good. Totally understandable for CEV children, and those at risk but I think we should be waiting for all of the data to be published.

The younger of my dc, that is where the real anguish is being felt. Parents are very torn, most are undecided and some are actively against the idea and will not even contemplate it. Interestingly, there are not too many that are confident that they will go ahead. That is why I was interested to see where olly is getting her assumptions from that everyone will be cheerfully marching their young offspring to be vaccinated. Most parents are very very worried about it.

You realise that if this is the case then the offer can be merrily declined?

I do not understand this "anguish" and insistence that it would be a terrible thing that if the CMO et al decides it's appropriate, it will be offered to teens.

Lets see olly because I think the take up is not going to be massive, at all. I would feel especially worried if I had a son for sure.

"12:05herecomesthsun

that was given as an example (e.g. if a child disagreed with a parent who happened to be an antivaxxer, as could happen) Peteycat not a universal epithet for all parents, hope that clarifies the point"

Nope. It doesn't, your just back tracking. Dividing people again. Even you just using the silly term 'anti vaxxers' shows me what you are about.

I do not understand this "anguish" and insistence that it would be a terrible thing that if the CMO et al decides it's appropriate, it will be offered to teens

Because regardless of whether the CMO, under heavy pressure from the government, gives the vaccines the green light, the JCVI have NOT recommended it for children.

That fact remains unchanged.

I have to say the idea of vaccinating millions of children with mRNA is making me anxious. I am not an anxious person. It is moving too fast and without enough data. I am having a gut feeling about this, and it isn't good. Totally understandable for CEV children, and those at risk but I think we should be waiting for all of the data to be published.

You thinking we should be waiting "for all of the data" (what do you mean by this?) is a valid reason to not want your own children to take up the offer, but isn't in terms of wanting every child in England to be denied the option, if decided the benefits outweigh the risks by the CMO et al.

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

Lets see olly because I think the take up is not going to be massive, at all. I would feel especially worried if I had a son for sure.

Uhuh, and that's your opinion, as I have said multiple times (based on statistics released):

The majority of parents want their children to be offered the vaccine. For the minority that don't, really how many are going to be in a situation where their child is going against their wishes?

I feel this is a lot of people getting fired about upset a hypothetical situation that is unlikely to impact their own children, and is just being used as an argument against offering it to this age group for the sake of it.

"12:09ollyollyoxenfree

Peteycat

"I am genuinely interested to know where you get the conviction that everyone is keen to get their kids vaccinated with a new vaccine with known harmful side effects?"

Me too. I want to know why everyone I know is anxious about it, however this poster must live in some parallel universe to us.

hmm

These posts are bizarre.

See my reply above.

Literally no one is insisting that children should be vaccinated"

Why is my post bizarre? You insinuate that the children will have it and parents will be skipping to the front of the queue or sending consent forms via special delivery ir tying them to pigeons. Not gonna happen.