Parental Consent for Vaccine

[naughty40me]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

[quote Peteycat]@Cornettoninja

I fully appreciate other peoples opinions but I don't agree with them. I'm stating the real world here, no data, no scientific evidence just general observations. More cases than last year. Could you please explain that with a valid explanation? Not just some waffle about variations etc. Let's look at it properly, we have more cases now than last year even with a vaccine.[/quote]
Have explained above.

Very basic epidemiology.

If your two scenarios are not exchangeable (i.e., identical apart from the thing you're comparing) then they will be susceptible to confounding

What else do you think is different compared to now and this time last year, apart from vaccination, that might explain the higher number of cases?

"scientific illiteracy" 😂😂😂😂 I've heard it all now.

"If your two scenarios are not exchangeable (i.e., identical apart from the thing you're comparing) then they will be susceptible to confounding"

That paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

@Peteycat

"If your two scenarios are not exchangeable (i.e., identical apart from the thing you're comparing) then they will be susceptible to confounding"

That paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

The only way to know if something is causing something else, if to have two parallel universes. So identical except for the one thing you're interested in - in this case vaccination.

When your two scenarios aren't identical (i.e., September 2020 and September 2021) and you see an effect - such as higher coronavirus cases, you have to stop and think whether this could be explained by any other differences in your two situations. HTH.

@Peteycat lamenting the fact that people don’t ‘see’ what you see isn’t respecting someone else’s opinion is it? It’s very clearly stating you want people to stop believing what they believe is true and start believing what you believe is true. It’s a lazy filler designed to play on emotion to strengthen your argument instead of rational points.

Why’s it so important to you that people agree? Is it because you need further validation of your opinion or because you thoroughly understand and believe in your stance? If the latter is true then emotional tactics aren’t needed.

@naughty40me

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

If it's all about CHOICE then why aren't you happy for your children to make their own choice if they have it or not?

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

Exactly this point here. That isn't informed consent, it's coercion. The kids know that they may not be able to do things if they don't have it, do you think that's the wrong message to send them? I do.

How old are your children Peteycat. I think that there are some 15 years old who are able to make a decision as much as an adult would be.

I do think though that not being able to is the wrong message - though tbf most of that for this age range comes from wanting to travel abroad

@Peteycat

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs. They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

Exactly this point here. That isn't informed consent, it's coercion. The kids know that they may not be able to do things if they don't have it, do you think that's the wrong message to send them? I do.

God forbid children are shown the news in school

What exactly do think teens (not children - as it may be offered to 12-15 year olds) are being told they can't do? Considering no domestic restrictions are being placed on adults right now?

And so you think the solution to the hypothetical idea that some teens might be feel coerced is to deny the offer to all in this age bracket so none can have it?

(If indeed the CMOs decide to offer it to this group, which hasn't been announced yet)

They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

It’s ok cos newsround is on the BBC so not biased at all. 😬🤔🤣

@QuornStarMartini

They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

It’s ok cos newsround is on the BBC so not biased at all. 😬🤔🤣

If you’re honestly that fussed about it the onus is on you to teach your children critical thinking skills and how to form their own opinion.

Teenagers love a good debate and the chance to correct the adult narrative ime, teach them how to do it if your concerned about media bias.

Cornettoninja

It was a jokey comment. 😉

I’m not that fussed about it. My kids can think for themselves but thanks for your concern.

@ollyollyoxenfree

There are far more cases this year (when the majority of the population has been vaccinated) than this time last year when nobody was vaccinated.

Yup, but as always, correlation=/=causation. We don't have more cases now because vaccines don't reduce your chances of infection or onward transmission.

So you think if there was no vaccine there would be even more cases than there are currently, far more than last year (when nobody was vaccinated). How do you know this is correct?

So you think if there was no vaccine there would be even more cases than there are currently, far more than last year (when nobody was vaccinated). How do you know this is correct?

Yes exactly @soredust

Because numerous recent studies have demonstrated that vaccinated cohorts of people are less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people. This is a robust, replicated finding. If you are not infected with coronavirus you cannot pass it on. If vaccine efficacy had dropped to 0% it would be obvious - it would be a complete disaster.

In addition, there is evidence to demonstrate that vaccinated people are infectious for a shorter duration of time, and have a lower viral load, when compared to their unvaccinated peers (see imperial's REACT-2 for example).

This has all been demonstrated in populations where delta is the dominant variant.

These factors mean that, on a population level, vaccination substantially reduces transmission.

www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1035885306/san-francisco-children-schools-vaccinated-covid-outbreaks-none-pediatric?t=1631432722905

This is the success story of undisrupted education due to vaccination.

@ollyollyoxen free, in my understanding, all those findings are highly contested (perhaps with the exception of the shorter duration of infection for vaccinated than unvaccinated). Only time and rigorous ongoing investigation will be able to tell. There have been many surprises so far, and initial promises about the extent to which transmission would be reduced are not being borne out. It's not surprising that people are increasingly wary.

Actually the Court of Appeal has just overthrown puberty blockers and said it was an improper restriction of Gillick Competence and one which would be court and legal intervention whereas it is something that should squarely be in the hands of the medical profession to decide if they were competent enough to consent to treatment