Parental Consent for Vaccine

[naughty40me]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]@bumbleymummy

As has been said to you before, the solution to bad science is not to respond with more bad science of your own.

VAERS/yellow card data should not be used as evidence of causality, no matter if another paper somewhere has also used poor quality methods.[/quote]
Let’s see how peer-review goes. As I said, they have tried to filter so that only medically reported events are used.

Is your ‘poor quality methods’ comment irt the Zoe study for long covid?

There are numerous long COVID studies so without knowing which you're referring to I can't possibly comment on the quality of the methods.

But yup there's a huge amount of low quality studies in this area (...and on COVID in general) that has been widely discussed - not sure why you're bringing it up on this thread?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/

Some on this thread might find this interesting

I note that you have side stepped the medical professional comments olly

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

I note that you have side stepped the medical professional comments olly

I haven't side stepped anything

I don't understand the point you think you're trying to make - and think you're looking for an argument with anyone who has a different opinion to you.

My post was in response to the calpol/medication discussion. As I have said - if a teen thinks they need painkillers, and a medical professional agrees, this does not mean parents can prevent them accessing this medication.

Any parent that restricts a teenager access to painkillers for me would flag safeguarding issues for me.

@AlixandraTheGreat

You mentioned anti vaxxers in your post in a negative way. I really don't like all this brandishing, labelling and division of people based on their medical choices. How would you feel if people started calling the vaccinated names? What you are doing is wrong, it's pigeon holing people and spreading hate, and I know you apologised but please just stop saying horrible things about people who choose not to have the vaccine.

The school nurse can not give medication without consent. End of.

Not all children can take calpol or certain painkillers, not because of the parents but due to blood type/allergies etc.

I am allergic to some painkillers, and they can make me incredibly ill so it is not as unusual as it sounds.

You are making a point olly that is both incorrect factually - re consent and wildly off the mark ethically.
It is not your job to convince parents to vaccinate their children. I would go one step further and remind you that you do not know the outcome of the vaccines, nobody does yet - or what children/groups of children are likely to be most affected by them, so by trying to push the vaccine you could be causing great harm.

In the telegraph it was very clear this morning, that young boys in particular are at far more risk from the vaccine than they are from covid. It has already been linked on the thread.

We need to be responsible.

It is okay to simply say you support the vaccine, and it is up to the parents to do what is right for their younger child/children. In the case of older teens (16+) with some discussion and research they are able to make the choice themselves. But to actively push like you are doing is morally and ethically wrong.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chris-whitty-set-to-give-green-light-for-teenage-vaccination-programme-m7kbk39s0

Fingers crossed.

@ollyollyoxenfree

There are numerous long COVID studies so without knowing which you're referring to I can't possibly comment on the quality of the methods.

But yup there's a huge amount of low quality studies in this area (...and on COVID in general) that has been widely discussed - not sure why you're bringing it up on this thread?

I asked the PP her opinion on it. It is relevant because it is self reported data which she seems to have an issue with irt the vaers data (although they have tried to filter for medically reported events).

@Quartz2208

Any parent that restricts a teenager access to painkillers for me would flag safeguarding issues for me.

Eh? The child may be allergic or could abuse painkillers.

@illuyankas

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chris-whitty-set-to-give-green-light-for-teenage-vaccination-programme-m7kbk39s0

Fingers crossed.

Could be poor timing given the recent studies showing increased risk in 12-15 yo boys.

I asked the PP her opinion on it. It is relevant because it is self reported data which she seems to have an issue with irt the vaers data (although they have tried to filter for medically reported events).

But the poster didn't bring up any papers about long COVID (or anything else) that use self-report data? If they did they'd I'd understand it being relevant.

As I've said, just because someone has used poor methods it doesn't justify someone else doing, or act as a argument for a low quality paper being valid.

Could be poor timing given the recent studies showing increased risk in 12-15 yo boys.

Presumably you're referring back to the problematic pre print that is being discussed @bumbleymummy?

We also have suicidal teens in our school, and they are not allowed to have paracetamols after numerous attempts to take their own lives. We have even had to remove the knives from the common room kitchen draws. The idea that every child should have medication because they ask nicely for it, is quite frankly naive and dangerous in the extreme.

Some children have very complex mental health needs, others have complex physical needs. To give out any painkillers without carefully checking records, consent and and making notes is a serious and potentially fatal safe guarding error.

I wonder sometimes who posts on here, and what they know about teens, children and schools. There seems to be a very poor grasp on what actually happens in real life versus some alternative universe.

As I've said, just because someone has used poor methods it doesn't justify someone else doing, or act as a argument for a low quality paper being valid.

I didn’t say it did.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Could be poor timing given the recent studies showing increased risk in 12-15 yo boys.

Presumably you're referring back to the problematic pre print that is being discussed @bumbleymummy?

And the studies from Canada and Israel (?) iirc.

bumble I think anything is going to be labelled 'problematic' if it does not fit and bend into a narrative that suits certain people hell bent on driving this through whatever the actual facts/outcome and data.

@Ollyollyoxenfree

"If you happen to be in this position presumably you can have an open discussion with your teen and understand why they want to go ahead.
As I've said before, I'm wondering how many parents this is actually going to directly impact and how many are just using it as an argument against offering the vaccine to this age group in children"

Really? Well I am wondering why you push your agenda on here about the vaccine being safe for children when it has been said at the moment that it is not.

@bumbleymummy and @zenthoughtsonlythanks exactly the school should be aware in those instances of allergies/addiction/mental health issues particularly suicidal thoughts if they are to support and help. All our safeguarding issues. A parent saying no should have reasoning behind it

But again actually is a different subject because schools cannot override parental consent only flag up where issues may occur. Only health professionals can

And if the school haven’t been informed of an allergy…

When they are giving the nasal flu vaccines in schools, you get sent various emails. A hard copy, and if your child has or has had underlying health issues then a phone call usually too. They provide a phone number /help line for you to call if you have any queries. This vaccine will be no different, all of you saying that it will are wrong. Parental consent will be required.

I agree petey We are in the very early stages of collecting data for vaccinating children. It is no one's place to declare it safe and everyone should have one. The JCVI have not recommended it for good reason. The reasons alone should be pause for thought, even with the most enthusiastic parent and cheerleader of vaccines.

We simply can not afford to steam ahead with vaccines without the relevant safeguards being in place, and moreover the long term harm is still totally unknown. This is not available as a paper anywhere in the world, as it does not exist. Given the actual covid risk to our children is so low, it makes sense to take our time and wait for the published papers and to have more confidence in the harm versus the benefit to children. I say this as someone very pro vaccine.

Quartz Certain posters are saying children can already request whatever meds they like, and this is simply untrue. A child, even a teenager is not given free rein to decide on their own medication at any point in schools or elsewhere. We have very strict policies protecting both the child and the school for good reason.

[quote Peteycat]@Ollyollyoxenfree

"If you happen to be in this position presumably you can have an open discussion with your teen and understand why they want to go ahead.
As I've said before, I'm wondering how many parents this is actually going to directly impact and how many are just using it as an argument against offering the vaccine to this age group in children"

Really? Well I am wondering why you push your agenda on here about the vaccine being safe for children when it has been said at the moment that it is not.[/quote]
Please link to any of my posts where I've said "the vaccine is safe for children" @Peteycat?

I think anything is going to be labelled 'problematic' if it does not fit and bend into a narrative that suits certain people hell bent on driving this through whatever the actual facts/outcome and data.

Nope, the reason i used that term is because the study @bumbleymummy keeps linking is problematic - specifically for the methods it uses which have been widely criticised, and is especially relevant given that it is not peer reviewed so has had no external check.

I'll say it again VAERS/yellow card data cannot be used as evidence of causality.

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

I like your post. Factual and sensible. In regards to children requesting medication etc, if I had someone elses child to look after, I would not administer anything without checking with the parents first. That is not my place so how do you think this situation is any different?