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Original poster

Parental Consent for Vaccine

467 replies

naughty40me · 08/09/2021 10:56

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

OP posts:
zenthoughtsonlythanks · 10/09/2021 13:40

If you want to fast track your kids without waiting for the data, that is up to you, but some of are more cautious and careful, and prefer to wait. Better safe than sorry.

herecomesthsun · 10/09/2021 13:45

Better safe than sorry - is the rationale for vaccination.

ollyollyoxenfree · 10/09/2021 13:53

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

If you want to fast track your kids without waiting for the data, that is up to you, but some of are more cautious and careful, and prefer to wait. Better safe than sorry.
Again (x infinity), fair enough.

Other parents may make a different decision, if the CMO et al decide to offer the vaccine to teens in this age group.

HairyToity · 10/09/2021 14:11

We've all had covid. My kids were barely poorly. They've had worse colds. I only got them tested as DH and I had tested positive. Over my dead body will they be having the vaccine.

Peteycat · 10/09/2021 15:10

"13:45herecomesthsun

Better safe than sorry - is the rationale for vaccination."

Right back at you. Better safe than sorry to use a new vaccine on children.

Peteycat · 10/09/2021 15:11

If there's a risk, it's a risk. Better safe than sorry.

herecomesthsun · 10/09/2021 15:13

@Peteycat

"13:45herecomesthsun

Better safe than sorry - is the rationale for vaccination."

Right back at you. Better safe than sorry to use a new vaccine on children.

I was already echoing the PP's comment, if you notice Smile
ollyollyoxenfree · 10/09/2021 15:13

@Peteycat

If there's a risk, it's a risk. Better safe than sorry.
All interventions have some form of risk, as does the thing they're designed to prevent or minimise harm from.

This is why benefit/risk analyses are conducted.

illuyankas · 10/09/2021 19:44

I do really wonder why people are so worried about predictable risk of vaccine but totally disregard even bigger risk of virus.

If my dc is unlucky few who is going to have heart problem because of immune reaction to the vaccine, it's more likely that he would have the same or worse with the actual virus induced immune reaction too. I'd rather be prepared for it than him getting virus at unexpected time.

NCBlossom · 11/09/2021 10:06

I think psychologically it’s much harder when a risk is part of an active choice, rather than something that happens to us.

So there are risks to children from Covid, they are small for hospitalisation, unknown / bigger for long covid. But we as parents can say ‘it happened’ and not feel that we caused it.

If we as parents vaccinate our children, then we feel responsible completely as it is our actions. Even though the risks of any short term adverse effects are tiny.

The risks from Covid long term are likely to be more significant than a vaccine (which do not tend to produce any long term effects).

But again, long term effects of Covid are ‘something that happens’.

So I think that is why it’s hard to weigh up risks when one is an action and one an inaction. If we had to either actively give our children covid or a vaccine - then we would probably feel quite differently.

Peteycat · 11/09/2021 10:14

"15:13ollyollyoxenfree

Peteycat

If there's a risk, it's a risk. Better safe than sorry.

All interventions have some form of risk, as does the thing they're designed to prevent or minimise harm from.

This is why benefit/risk analyses are conducted"

Yes i agree that benefit/risk analyses are conducted, and are useful but this particular situation has proved a risk so its safer to wait.

Xenia · 11/09/2021 11:03

As far as I know the Gillick case means if a child is mature enough even though under 16 to take its own decisions about these kinds of things it can. That might be to have an abortion, take the pill, have or refuse a life saving blood transfusion (Jehovah's witnesses) and I suppose if an anorexic whether to eat or not.

gogohm · 11/09/2021 11:14

The law on medical decision competency is long established, covid vaccination is no different. Only where the young person and the parents disagree will it come into play. As it's not even an issue at the moment I wouldn't get all het up about it. If your dc decide they want to be vaccinated it's ultimately their choice

Peteycat · 11/09/2021 11:15

@Xenia

"
As far as I know the Gillick case means if a child is mature enough even though under 16 to take its own decisions about these kinds of things it can. That might be to have an abortion, take the pill, have or refuse a life saving blood transfusion (Jehovah's witnesses) and I suppose if an anorexic whether to eat or not"

It's not as simple as that. A 12/13 year old is very different to a 15/16 year old.

gogohm · 11/09/2021 11:20

Remember that the main reason to vaccinate teens is to reduce transmission in schools and crucially keep them open, this directly benefits young people. My dc are a bit older and managed to get vaccinated early by choice (knew the vaccine centre manager and got leftovers) because they want to be in classes etc. It's paid off because despite being in very close proximity with cases eg sharing a tent) dd hasn't caught covid

soredust · 11/09/2021 11:27

@gogohm

Remember that the main reason to vaccinate teens is to reduce transmission in schools and crucially keep them open, this directly benefits young people. My dc are a bit older and managed to get vaccinated early by choice (knew the vaccine centre manager and got leftovers) because they want to be in classes etc. It's paid off because despite being in very close proximity with cases eg sharing a tent) dd hasn't caught covid
But the vaccines don't reduce transmission and even if serious symptoms in an individual child are reduced due to vaccination, schools will still be disrupted because of isolation rules, so vaccinated children who test positive will still be treated the same as pre-vaccination rules and have to stay off school Confused.
bruffin · 11/09/2021 11:32

They do reduce transmission!

ollyollyoxenfree · 11/09/2021 11:39

But the vaccines don't reduce transmission

@soredust

Vaccination significantly reduces your chances of both being infected (and so having to isolate) and further transmitting it.

This has a huge impact on a population-level and would help minimise disruption to education.

People seem to take the fact that it's not 100% to equal that they're useless, even though it's rare for any intervention to have such a huge effect.

soredust · 11/09/2021 12:35

@ollyollyoxenfree

But the vaccines don't reduce transmission

@soredust

Vaccination significantly reduces your chances of both being infected (and so having to isolate) and further transmitting it.

This has a huge impact on a population-level and would help minimise disruption to education.

People seem to take the fact that it's not 100% to equal that they're useless, even though it's rare for any intervention to have such a huge effect.

There are far more cases this year (when the majority of the population has been vaccinated) than this time last year when nobody was vaccinated.

Even if cases are mild, schools will still enforce isolation rules for any child with a positive test (even if symptomless) so disruption won't be stopped.

ollyollyoxenfree · 11/09/2021 12:37

There are far more cases this year (when the majority of the population has been vaccinated) than this time last year when nobody was vaccinated.

Yup, but as always, correlation=/=causation. We don't have more cases now because vaccines don't reduce your chances of infection or onward transmission.

Peteycat · 11/09/2021 13:58

"12:37ollyollyoxenfree

There are far more cases this year (when the majority of the population has been vaccinated) than this time last year when nobody was vaccinated.

Yup, but as always, correlation=/=causation. We don't have more cases now because vaccines don't reduce your chances of infection or onward transmission"

Even when people state factual information of what is actually happening right now, you still have some strange agenda and argue the case for vaccination, when @soredust has correctly confirmed that we have more cases than last year even though alot of people are vaccinated.

Peteycat · 11/09/2021 14:00

Can't you see why vaccination of children isn't the best idea at the moment. It's staring everyone on the face but some just won't accept that the vaccines aren't the way of this.

Cornettoninja · 11/09/2021 14:07

@Peteycat

Can't you see why vaccination of children isn't the best idea at the moment. It's staring everyone on the face but some just won't accept that the vaccines aren't the way of this.
Hmm

For someone whose constantly piping up about being entitled to their opinion your very insistent that others shouldn’t have theirs.

Peteycat · 11/09/2021 14:14

@Cornettoninja

I fully appreciate other peoples opinions but I don't agree with them. I'm stating the real world here, no data, no scientific evidence just general observations. More cases than last year. Could you please explain that with a valid explanation? Not just some waffle about variations etc. Let's look at it properly, we have more cases now than last year even with a vaccine.

ollyollyoxenfree · 11/09/2021 14:15

@Peteycat I think you need to carefully read the posts again.

The poster said cases are higher than this time last year, which is true.

However they then used this statement to try and prove vaccines don't reduce infection of spread, which is untrue.

As I said, correlation=/=causation. This is very basic epi. In this case there is confounding (i.e., other factors that are different between the two scenarios), which are causing cases to be higher.

I don't have an "agenda", I'm just not a fan of scientific illiteracy or policy decisions that aren't backed by good evidence.